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Author Topic: two - 2 - two campaigns in one! **SPOILER WARNING** (my players stay out)  (Read 14530 times)
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kevperrine
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« on: October 08, 2006, 07:10:05 PM »

well...  boy did I have an interesting day Saturday...

I've been building ideas for starting a NEW Midnight campaign that follows up on my previous Midnight campaign.  Only 1-2 of the players would be returning to this campaign from the previous...  I quarried to find new heroes on the Seattle Gamers Assemble Yahoo! group  and  WOW!!  I got alot of response. 
Midnight aparently has lots of interest to my friends in Seattle!!

So...  although I told them that I would ONLY want 5-6 players in the group and we would be playing BI-WEEKLY,  I would invite them ALL to have lunch and talk about the game, doing character creation.  And they came! 
10 of us in all,  and one (previous player)  who didn't come may join us later!   

So what'd I do - stick my foot in my mouth and say...  "hey, what do you guys think about me running two groups in the same world, in different areas?"

and BAM!!

They loved it.
I'm pretty sure I can manage it.  I'm good at managing large groups,  so that's easy.  I ran the last Midnight game WEEKLY, so a weekly game (that's two seperate groups)  shouldn't be too hard.  The only thing I'm concerned about is
-  developing the two story-lines  and  making them connect in fun interesting ways  although they're on seperate areas of Eredane.  I decided that one group would begin in the NORTH and one in the SOUTH.
-  keeping them seperate and enthusiastic in my mind.
-  and weekly coming up with cool, interesting events, battles and such for both.


what do people think?
Any ideas?

I'll eventually post my notes for my plans (once I make them) for ideas...
thanks
-kev-
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 03:06:39 AM by kevperrine » Logged

best,
-kev-
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kevperrine
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2006, 07:15:37 PM »

okay...

the first of my ideas for your thoughts and considerations that will be things to help connect the two games and groups.


IF you are a player in these games reading this please

***SPOILER ALERT***

STOP

READING

NOW

***SPOILER ALERT***






Okay... 
I like the idea of the two groups being loosely connected since I'm running both and they'll be in the same world.  I'd like for the two PC groups to have communication at times.  More for the fun of the connection than anything,  but it also will be a great means of conveying ideas,  info on other parts of the world and hooks.

Here's a beginning of a coventant item I'm considering giving to two of the players.  Please throw ideas on how to improve or add to it.


The basic idea is to have a form of written communication that they can write to one another.  Basically email.  heheh
At first I thought a cool old tome that would magically reprint the words from one book to the other.  Then I thought, a book it the obvious choice and it creates a problem for them to hide.  Since it's really just a prop for GM hooks mostly I thought about changing it to a pen (rather a Quill)  that would magically write out the messages while the PC is asleep...  writing it on anything available. -  a nice rockface, paper, armor, a cloak or even on someone's skin.  Whatever is the "best" option available.  Then I thought maybe instead of the Quill it should be the Ink Well...  The well itself -  and they neen to refill it to make it work.

Lastly I think the one I'm going with ...
One group has the Quill  and the other has the Ink Well.  This means that the group with the Ink well would need to refill it now and then or get no messages!  The ink well spills the ink out and it forms the words.  The Quill uses the ink (from the well)  and writes out the info.


This is a covenant item so I want to make it into a step by step item as normal  but  with the first level being the ability for long range communication.  And it needs to be the height of the continent to work for my purpose.  Not sure what additional levels would be yet.

I'll be developing that here...  Any ideas are welcome.
Do you like the idea for the ink and well?  Should it be a book?  Or just the quill? 
Is it too silly for words??  Smiley



thanks for your ideas.
-kev-

« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 07:24:20 PM by kevperrine » Logged
kevperrine
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2006, 07:30:22 PM »

Hopefully my players aren't reading anymore...
I'll still post the item I'm building in black spoiler text below...


Here's a beginning of a coventant item I'm considering giving to two of the players.  Please throw ideas on how to improve or add to it.

thanks for your ideas.
-kev-




this Coventant Item is still in the
WORKING WORKING WORKING...



MECHANICS
This Covenant Item is in two parts.  One is the QUILL, the other is it's INK WELL.  Created long ago by elven scout masters, this item allows long range communication through two hero's of destiny (those with Heroic Paths).  When seperated over great distances the Quill and the Ink Well individually have the ability to spell out short messages.  Both magically write the message sent from it's counterpart when eyes are not upon it at lower levels.  The Quill magically depletes the Ink Well when it writes as does the Ink Well when lettering a message.  Neither will function when the Ink Well is empty, the owner of the Ink Well must refill the Well before either can function.  The "ink" filling the well can be any variety of normal inks created for writing,  alternatively the owner may fill the Well with the blood of any intelligent being!  The message is written in that ink/blood.
Messages must be written in prose, as letters written between friends or as journal entries. 

BACKGROUND
????


  • 1st levell:  messages may be written and recieved at great distances of 1000-3000 miles.  Distance improves (shorter and longer range) at higher levels. 
  • 3rd levell:  ??? 
  • 5th levell:  ???   
  • 9th level:  ??? 
[/color]


I'm slowly working on this guy...  ideas are welcome.
-kev-

« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 07:43:58 PM by kevperrine » Logged
arnon
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 12:31:14 AM »

Does it have to be a convenant item?
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kevperrine
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2006, 12:40:20 AM »

Does it have to be a convenant item?


no... what else would it be though?
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 01:25:58 AM »

Hmmm...before I got down to your idea, I thought of something very similar.

Then I had an add-on:  What if they were seperated in time?  For instance, the Quill exists 50 years before the ink well.  The players in the future can add ink to the well, and send messages to the past.  The players in the past must leave some sort of indelible message for the players in the future that will withstand the passing of time.  I think it'd be even better if they didn't know that they were seperated in time, but only thought it was a distance seperation.  Set both in the last age, but have one group set in a town just before it is overrun by Shadow, and the other group in the same town after it has been overtaken and renamed.  Most of the original populace was killed or moved elsewhere, and now it is a slave/barracks town.  A group of slaves finds an ink well, with a message in stone next to it...

You could even have one of the future NPCs be one of the past PCs, long faded from glory, beaten, and broken.

So not only do they work together, if they figure out the trick, they can try and prevent the town from being overrun, or at least evacuate the populace, etc etc etc...

I'm imagining many directions this could go...

Joe
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Albert
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2006, 01:41:56 AM »

Great and original idea Pheros. I'm usually not too fond of "time-travel" in fantasy games, or any games for that matter, but that seems like a plot one might be able to pull off.
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2006, 12:44:45 PM »

Pheros' idea sounds soo much like the hous eon the Lake movie, which is great, except maybe for the ending, i think it could be much nicer with a different one. I think you shoudl really go along with it, I don't like time travelling myself too, but that way it may actually work.

I thibnk you could have them both have the quill and pen, at different times, use NPCs and maybe even the PCs to tie one grroup to the other, and avoid putting them aroudn the same places, it will be a great surprise when theya ctually learn the truth. Another ideea I ahd was to use non written ways, like two characters wearing soem family ring and now and then, they change places, like ESP, this could start more or less like seeing through another's person eyes and eharing through his ears, or like clairvoyance, like you were there.

let them get attahed because of the kind of challenges they face, or because they are trying the same thing, maybe int eh end they can only suceed by playing together, in the same timeline or not, maybe it is a demon whose existence is dual, past and future at once, an entity that somehows breaks the line of time.

If you had a seer character in one of the groups this kind of thing would work wonders, the writing would go well if there are hermetic chanellers. As a whole, i think you shouldn't give mechanics to the thing putting them in contact, it isn't really a combat thing and it is a story tool, so use it as needed.

Some mroe thoughts.
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2006, 02:01:06 PM »

The Seer(MN2), Dreamer(Download section) or Reborn(Lost on the old forums, but hopefully soon to be recovered) heroic paths or the Haunted One PrC(MN2) could make great plot elements in such a campaign.

Did you get this from a movie Pheros? If you didn't it's great creative work on your part, I haven't heard of the movie anyway.
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 03:04:12 PM »

Dreamer would be ideal, yes. It turned out to be the preeminent long-range communication path.


no... what else would it be though?

An ordinary magical item.

Instead of the quill/inkwell (not that that's a bad idea, mind, just offering alternatives), you could give then an item with the ability to call an animal messenger (there's a free MN adventure that features just such an item), or cast sendings.
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 03:14:28 PM »

The time warp is a very nice idea.

However, it poses some problems, especially if most of the players are all new to Midnight. Starting them off at different times, such as before a village is overrun will create different scenarios than what many of those in the pre-sacking group are probably expecting.

Without the time-warp, the quill provides another problem: How fast is the communication time? You're going to have to limit it to "gm's discretion", or you'll have one hell of a communication/time-warp problem in the group as both sides keep waiting for a response from the other. Also, can the people with the ink well write messages too? With what?

While I like the idea, and I've always been a fan of different groups within the same campaign world, I also realize that it's tough. Even tougher if you allow the groups to be in constant communication with each other.

I think it would be better if they met some of the same NPCs at different points in time, and if their actions affected the outcome of the other group occasionally. For example, stumbling across each other's battlegrounds, hunting shadow minions hunting the other group, or even stumbling across dead members of the other group, preferrably turned insane fell or lost.
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2006, 03:22:56 PM »

Quote
Also, can the people with the ink well write messages too? With what?
With the ink the inkwell is filled with I guess.
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2006, 03:32:25 PM »

The Quill could have the power to create some magical runes - like Sepia Snake Sigil or Explosive Runes; and stuff like Secret Page (or Illusionary Page, whatever it's called now). It might also have the ability to draw objects and then make them real.

The Inkwell could create clouds of darkness and crude, monochrome illusions, or be poured over ac reature to change their shape.
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2006, 03:48:26 PM »

I think the timing could be udnefined, soemtimes fast, others not, but always one session away for the players. This could help the Dm introduce some mroe dramatic tension to the game by choosing when the message delivers. The House on the Lake movie, as I said, has just this, a couple changes letters and they are 2 years away from one another, the time warp is one single mailbox.

In your case perhaps each of them has the same book, one which accepts no ink, but transports it to a future or past time, according to the case, this would also let them reference all messages they received, but not any they sent. Would be fun to have the first few messages appearing too. Sounds a little too much like harry Potter and Voldemort's diary though.
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2006, 10:45:13 PM »

Did you get this from a movie Pheros? If you didn't it's great creative work on your part, I haven't heard of the movie anyway.

No, I haven't seen the movie, though it sounds interesting.  That was just something that popped into my head as I was reading Kev's description...

I like the rune idea...maybe they each find a tablet with a rune of ... (sending, message, something).  Whenever they read the rune, it disappears, and delivers the message imbued in it by the other group.  Whenever they carve a rune, it fades while they sleep (so no more than a day later), and at that point gets transmitted to the other group.  That should give you the lag time you need so that the PCs aren't expecting instant answers from the other group...

Or maybe every time they carve a rune and it fades, the stone becomes slightly harder to read.  If they send too many messages, they will no longer be able to see the replies, and the tool becomes useless...that should keep them from using it too too often, but still make it accessible for important use...

Joe
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kevperrine
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2006, 03:05:42 AM »

I'll be posting more on this as I brainstorm and settle in with the two campaign plan.

The weird thing is that I actually had had the same idea that Pheros had....  My only thing to consider is WHEN the two campaigns would be if I did this?  Would one be set during my previous campaign timeline (which was 99 years after the fall)?  Would the other be set 101-102 years after the shadow fell?  Would one be year(s) before the 99th year?

I haven't looked but I was considering this as an option and I'd need to look for anything cool in the timeline I could use if I wanted to go back in time.


The one thing I hesitate about this is that I don't want to create a campaign (for one group)  that ultimately feels like a  "it was a dream"  campaign and their actions are predestined and won't matter...  That would suck.


I also really would like to have the groups come together in person sometime  (hence starting one in the north and one in the south and moving them toward one another)  so we could gather as a large group in the future for big  WAR  type battles  (like the Hobbit's Battle of the Five Armies!  with PCs as war captains down the road)


The one thing that I'm thinking of accomplishing with this magic item for communication is to allow the groups to interact.  We're using the same Yahoo group,  the same Wiki campaign bible  and  the same basic uber-plot stuff...  So I'd like them to communcate.  I don't think I'm concerned about when they're get messages...  This would really be up to the player(s) that write to the other group.  In fact I probably won't allow them to write names in the communications,  that way it even teases the players in not knowing exactly who in the other group is actually writing the message.
And the TWISTED thing is that I can always "insert" messages from other sources,  good or evil!!

We will likely have a Seer heroic path in one of the groups  and  possibly two channellers  (though I don't yet know which types).  The neat thing is the player talking about being a Seer is also the one considering playing an Orc,  and he's talked about how to work Seer into how/why he turns from Izrador -  being that he has had these dreams and seen himself through the eyes of others...  he soon realizes that he's seeing through the people's eyes that his troop KILLS the next day in raids and such!  (think of this as a Being John Malkovich sytle Seeing)  and then finally he has the courage to STOP the circle by killing the Orc that was destined to kill the human he saw through eyes in the dream the previous night.  We're working on how/when this comes into the game if that's what he goes with...


You can see what my groups have going with their class/race/heroic path at our wiki here:
http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Midnight:_the_SHADOW_KILLERS

I'll toss up the continuation of my plans soon.
I begin the SOUTHERN group this next Saturday!

-kev-
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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2006, 09:40:45 AM »

The weird thing is that I actually had had the same idea that Pheros had.... 

Obviously, it must be genius then...

The one thing I hesitate about this is that I don't want to create a campaign (for one group)  that ultimately feels like a  "it was a dream"  campaign and their actions are predestined and won't matter...  That would suck.

Yes, I agree that would suck, but I think you could spin it right...maybe something similar to "Back to the Future" where changes they suggest to the past propogate forward through the heroes of the future, changing their world (e.g. they fall asleep, wake up after the message is sent, and suddenly Townsfolk John is mayor, not Legate Viggan, and noone remembers but them...

Joe
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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2006, 09:42:32 AM »

What if: a 3rd party is able to "listen in" to the communication secretely? Could create all sorts of dangerous situations, and make the players more catious about using it, if they found out.
Also, if the item is regular magic(non-covenant), astiraxes could be drawn to them when the other group uses the item. Makes it all more perilious. Just make sure not to go over the top wiht this, since you'll want them to keep using the item.

edit: also, once we're talking movies
In "the butterfly effect" the main character used to have blackouts as a child, once he grew up he found a way to access those black outs and act through his former body to change the past(and thus the future). That is, his blackouts were in reality periods of time when his future self had been in control.
Don't know if that's an idea or not, probably way too difficult to implement in a regular game.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 09:45:38 AM by Albert » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 10:10:36 AM »

To avoid the dream thing they could be long distances apart perhaps one year away from each other, this could mean a message from the group in the future that asks for help at X could still be right when the other group takes about a year to egt to them, or even less time, 6 months, perhaps, this means they could somehow get together because the time difference plus the distance means meeting is a matter of past group travelling 6 months to mee the other, and they already know where the others will be.
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2006, 03:21:33 PM »

To avoid the dream thing they could be long distances apart perhaps one year away from each other, this could mean a message from the group in the future that asks for help at X could still be right when the other group takes about a year to egt to them, or even less time, 6 months, perhaps, this means they could somehow get together because the time difference plus the distance means meeting is a matter of past group travelling 6 months to mee the other, and they already know where the others will be.


Now that's an interesting consideration.


QUESTION -  on the magical but NON-Covenant item....
I suppose I'm a little confused on Coventant Items and Magical items then,  perhaps yal can help me get set right.  Here's what I assumed was correct...


-  the are no "general magic items"  in Midnight,  it's either Covenant Items  or  Charms  (essentially a truth charm would be a magic item that doesn't attract astirax)

-  Covenant Items are only "radiating" magic energy when in use,  or activated.  So a sword that magically flames up when a battle cry is spoken wouldn't be "active" until the words are spoken...  So at first glance (and detection) it's just a sword. 

-  most Covenant Items don't work for  non-Heroic Path  people.  And people on a Heroic Path can "sense" the fact they're coventant items when they come into possession of the item  or  see it in action.  Otherwise a covenant item could be "hidden" from anyone knowing it's there.

-  villains can ALSO be on Heroic Paths so they can find/use Covenant Items.

-  a coventant item is "destined" to be in the hands of people on the Heroic Path,  further they are destined to (hopefully)  find the right people to use them.  Although anyone with Heroic Path could use any Covenant Item (potentially) though it just might not be best suited to them.



So...
That's assuming alot,  and I might have added my own ideas to the mix over time.  But what would YOU folks consider or know to be canon by the rules.  Any additional things to consider  on  Magic Items  and Covenant Items?


thanks
-kev-
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2006, 04:01:21 PM »

There are Regular old magical items all over the place... well, not much any more, but there used to be. Legates and the Order has been gathering up anything they found, Izy needs the magic trapped in those items.

Covenant items can work for anyone, anyone it chooses. Anyone fiting enough for it. The item communicates it ability to the proper "hero". This hero does not have to have a HEroic Path... he or she doesn't even have to be good.

In my camapaign when one of the PCs died, the party took his belonging, among them was a covenant helmet. When one of them tried it on and walked around with it for a time, nothing happened, it did not work for him... he wasn't 'attuned' to it.

arnon
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2006, 04:07:02 PM »

There are Regular old magical items all over the place... well, not much any more, but there used to be. Legates and the Order has been gathering up anything they found, Izy needs the magic trapped in those items.

Covenant items can work for anyone, anyone it chooses. Anyone fiting enough for it. The item communicates it ability to the proper "hero". This hero does not have to have a HEroic Path... he or she doesn't even have to be good.

In my camapaign when one of the PCs died, the party took his belonging, among them was a covenant helmet. When one of them tried it on and walked around with it for a time, nothing happened, it did not work for him... he wasn't 'attuned' to it.

arnon



cool.
Can you also make sure you let me know if this is YOUR theory or if it's ideas from the published books.

I will eventually define it as I like with all the ideas, but I also like knowing what's coming from where.
thanks
-kev-
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2006, 04:12:58 PM »

I don't have my books with me here. But the fact that some of the villans described in the different books have convenant items is enough to tell us that you do not have to be good or with a Heroic Path to posses and have it functioning for you.

As for only one convenant item per character, it's not in the book.... i think. But i don't like the idea of PCs wlaking around with several covenant items on them. One is enough, it makes the hero/villan unique. something to be rememberd by.
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2006, 04:17:45 PM »

There are regular magic items in midnight, some printed npcs have some of these. These are more dangerous to PCs because astiraxes can smell them, astiraxes can never smell covenant items.

There's no rule that says that you must have a Heroic path to activate covenant items in general, but that doesn't keep specific covenant items from demanding this.

Covenant items only radiate magic when they are active, this is true.

Wether or not villains can have heroic paths is up to the GM. Covenant items can in general be used by anyone, but a specific covenant item might require it's user to be "pure of heart" or have some other villain-deterring prerequisite.


These are rules as written, as far as I know, but I can't quote specific pages right now.
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2006, 10:11:23 PM »

Are we in the DM's Corner? Yes? Good.

There is a covenant item called "Staff of the Betrayer". It belongs/belonged to Beirial the Betrayer. He is definately not a good guy.

Covenant items are innate magic, not channeleed, and can never be detected by astiraxes, who detect only channeled magic. However, they can be detected by detect magic and similar spells and special abilities once activated.

Heroic Paths were originally intended only for the heroes. However, the books never states this as canon, and any GM is free to do as he pleases. Which he is anyway, since its his campaign.
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