New Core Class: THE KEEPER (unfinished, so come on in and assist)

[Draco]

Hello everyone!
I would like to present (and hopefully finish) my new core class, that is (loosely) based on the bard.
The idea behind this is that there is a class missing (IMO) that secretly travels between the isolated villages and preserves and promotes forbidden knowledge. Teaching and connecting the masses. That's what the Keeper does - and more:


THE KEEPER
Keeper of Knowledge and History
Wandering Minstrel and Storyteller
Messenger and Networker
Spy


GAME RULE INFORMATION
Keepers have the following game statistics.
   Abilities: Intelligence and Charisma are important for most of the keeper’s key class skills, while Wisdom and Dexterity help the keeper to detect and evade dangers.
   Alignment: any, but usually non-evil.
   Hit Die: d6
   BAB: medium
   Good Saves: Will

CLASS SKILLS
The keeper’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis) and Use Magic Device (Cha). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.
   Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) x 4.
   Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the keeper.
   Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A keeper is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor, but not with shields.
   Inconspicuous (Ex): Keepers receive Inconspicuous as a bonus feat at 1st level. When spreading forbidden knowledge, keepers learned long ago, it is best not to arouse the suspicion of the dark god’s forces.
   Keeper Knowledge (Ex): At 3rd level, a keeper may roll any knowledge check untrained. In addition, a keeper gains a +2 bonus to any two Craft, Knowledge, Perform and/or Profession skills of her choice. Every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th), a keeper may choose another two skills and apply a +2 bonus to each. Any skill may be chosen more than once, its bonuses stack.
   Special (Ex): Once per day at 4th level, a keeper can use her perform skill to  ???. She may use this ability an additional time per day at 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level.
   Keeper Talent (Ex): At 1st and 2nd level and every three levels thereafter (5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th), a keeper gains a special talent of her choice from among the following. Unless otherwise noted, all keeper talents are extraordinary abilities.
   Linguist (Ex): The keeper is a master of the word, both spoken and written. At 1st level, the keeper gains literacy in any one language in which she has skill ranks. In addition, for every rank in the Speak Language skill, the keeper receives one additional point usable to learn new languages or gain literacy. Finally, the keeper can advance languages by more than one point per level.


KEEPER TALENTS
   Keeper talents are organized into tiers. Tier 1 talents have no prerequisites. Tier 2 talents each have one specific tier 1 ability as a prerequisite, and tier 3 talents have either a specific tier 1 talent and a specific tier 2 talent as prerequisites, or another tier 3 talent as a prerequisite.

TIER 1 TALENTS
   Arcane Dabbler: The keeper gains Magecraft, Spellcasting or Spell Knowledge as a bonus feat. A keeper may select this talent multiple times, choosing a new feat each time; however, she may not choose this trait twice in a row.
   Craft Charm: The keeper gains Craft Charm as a bonus feat.
   Herbalist: The keeper gains Herbalist as a bonus feat.
   Lore Master: The keeper becomes a master of lore and can take 10 on any Knowledge skill check that she has ranks in. The keeper can choose not to take 10 and can instead roll normally. In addition, once per day, the keeper can take 20 on any Knowledge skill check as a standard action.
   Martial Lore: The keeper gains Martial Weapon Proficiency or Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat. The keeper may choose this talent more than once.
   Skill Mastery: The keeper becomes so certain in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects any skill from the keeper class skill list. When making a check with that skill, she gains a +3 competence bonus to the check and may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. A keeper may select this trait multiple times, selecting a different skill for it to apply to each time.

TIER 2 TALENTS
   Jack of all Trades (Requires Lore Master): The keeper can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires her to be trained. At 16th level, the keeper considers all skills to be class skills.
   Trait 2: The keeper
   Trait 3: The keeper
   Trait 4: The keeper
   Trait 5: The keeper
   Trait 6: The keeper

TIER 3 TALENTS
   Trait 1: The keeper
   Trait 2: The keeper
   Trait 3: The keeper
   Trait 4: The keeper
   Trait 5: The keeper
   Trait 6: The keeper



Level       Special
1st           Inconspicuous, keeper talent, linguist
2nd           Keeper talent
3rd           Keeper knowledge
4th           Special 1/day
5th           Keeper talent
6th           Keeper knowledge
7th           Special 2/day
8th           Keeper talent
9th           Keeper knowledge
10th         Special 3/day
11th         Keeper talent
12th         Keeper knowledge
13th         Special 4/day
14th         Keeper talent
15th         Keeper knowledge
16th         Special 5/day
17th         Keeper talent
18th         Keeper knowledge
19th         Special 6/day
20th         Keeper talent


DESIGN NOTES:
I used the basic underlying design concept of the wildlander for this class.
The Special ability gained at 4th level must still be specified. I was thinking about some inspiration ability as the original bard or some form of "shared knowledge". But definitely improvable by Keeper talents.

[ck]

I would suggest moving your "Special" to 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter, so that they get it 6 times a day, and don't have any double or dead levels.  (This is what my DM and I did in our game for the Wildlander and his Hunter's Strike ability).  I don't see how you modeled after the defender here... this progression looks more like a Wildlander.  Defender's tiering is different from the Wildlander's.  Actually, you've built this level progression identical to Wildlander... Sub Inconspicuous for Track, Keeper Talent for Wildlander Ability, Bardic Knowledge for Danger Sense, and Special for Hunter's Strike.

For Jack of All Trades, I would say you need to reword it to read "Keeper" as opposed to "Bard".

For Linguist, I have to say that this is how Languages normally work in Midnight (you spend 1 point in a language to increase your level of competency by 1 step), other than Literacy costing 2 as opposed to 1, so where is the benefit in taking this, other than saving 1 skill point on Literacy?

Other than that, I like it.

[Draco]

I would suggest moving your "Special" to 4th level and every 3 levels thereafter, so that they get it 6 times a day, and don't have any double or dead levels...

good idea.

I don't see how you modeled after the defender here... this progression looks more like a Wildlander.  Defender's tiering is different from the Wildlander's.  Actually, you've built this level progression identical to Wildlander... Sub Inconspicuous for Track, Keeper Talent for Wildlander Ability, Bardic Knowledge for Danger Sense, and Special for Hunter's Strike.

Yeah that's true. It's some time since I started this.

For Jack of All Trades, I would say you need to reword it to read "Keeper" as opposed to "Bard".

Oh. Thanks! I missed those.

For Linguist, I have to say that this is how Languages normally work in Midnight (you spend 1 point in a language to increase your level of competency by 1 step), other than Literacy costing 2 as opposed to 1, so where is the benefit in taking this, other than saving 1 skill point on Literacy?

Oh. That's odd. How could I miss this one?
Okay, so we need a new benefit for this one.

IDEA 1:
You learn languages more quickly. 1 point buys you basic competence and 2 points make you fluent. (No use for pidgin-only languages)

IDEA 2:
Everytime you take this talent, you receive 2,3,4 (?) free skill ranks in the speak language skill.

Other than that, I like it.

Well. That's a good start then! Thanks.

[ck]

Another thing that my DM and I did was we modded quite a few of the races.  Among those mods, we gave something to the orcs to support the fact that all over the Midnight books it's stated how the Orcs are such good linguists, yet there were no game mechanics to support this.

This is what we gave to the orcs:
---------
Natural Linguist: Orcs excel at learning languages even with little exposure to them.  Every level that an orc gains, including first, they gain an automatic skill point that may only be put into a language.  Orcs are also allowed to spend an additional skill point to improve a language after first level given their greater linguistic talent over the other races.
---------

Not sure if you're aware but after first level, you may only spend 1 point in a single language to raise your familiarity in it.  So for instance, if you have a pidgin in Trader's Tongue and you gain a level, you can only spend 1 point in Trader's Tongue to raise it to Basic.  You would have to wait until you level again to raise it to Fluent.  This ability lets you go from Pidgin, to Fluent.  Same goes for if you don't know a language... normally you can only gain Pidgin in a language that you don't know... Orcs can now spend 2 points and get up to Basic in a language in just one level.  Make sense?

[Draco]

Yeah. Just read the whole thing about languages again.
So I thought about this:

LINGUIST
a) Only need 1 skill point to become literate.
b) Skip pidgin level: 1 point in new language = basic competence.
    Exception pidgin-only languages  &  cross-reference automatic languages (like Danisil for Halflings,or Trader's Tongue for many others)
c) Can increase a language by more than one step per level

[ck]

Yeah. Just read the whole thing about languages again.
So I thought about this:

LINGUIST
a) Only need 1 skill point to become literate.
b) Skip pidgin level: 1 point in new language = basic competence.
    Exception pidgin-only languages  &  cross-reference automatic languages (like Danisil for Halflings,or Trader's Tongue for many others)
c) Can increase a language by more than one step per level

In essence, that's what my rule does.  If you only need 1 point for Basic, or you get an extra skill point per level for languages, you're still only spending 1 skill point for Basic.  Plus you don't have to spend any skills points in languages if you don't want to... you can just spend your bonus points.  You also don't have to put in the caveat of pidgin only languages.  Also, by costing Literacy at 1 point, it's the same as my rule for the same reason that Basic is 1 point... you're getting a free point to spend.  It's just a simpler rule that achieves the same thing, but has the bonus of someone not having to invest skills points in languages and they can grow their languages anyway.  It adds flexibility for players... do they want to excel faster with languages by investing the same way a normal character would, or do they want to advance in languages at a normal rate with no additional expenditure at all?

[Draco]

While I find it better to have the player actually put skill points into the language skill, instead of giving him automatic points, I am momentarily thinkin about backward-adaptability (lacking a better word) and how to make this talent this way.
What I mean is: If you take this talent at 1st level, everything seems fine, but if you take it at a later level, it might get confusing.

Example: You used 3 points to get fluent in a language and THEN take this talent. Practically, you wasted one skill point.
The same goes for literacy. If you bought literacy BEFORE taking this talent, you again wasted a point.
I wonder if there is an easy way to prevent or compensate this...


Hmm...
Why not giving the keeper this ability automatically at first level?
Either instead of the Keeper Talent or the Inconspicious feat?

[ck]

While I find it better to have the player actually put skill points into the language skill, instead of giving him automatic points, I am momentarily thinkin about backward-adaptability (lacking a better word) and how to make this talent this way.
What I mean is: If you take this talent at 1st level, everything seems fine, but if you take it at a later level, it might get confusing.

Example: You used 3 points to get fluent in a language and THEN take this talent. Practically, you wasted one skill point.
The same goes for literacy. If you bought literacy BEFORE taking this talent, you again wasted a point.
I wonder if there is an easy way to prevent or compensate this...

Sure, better planning.  It's just like increasing your Intelligence from 13 to 14 at say 8th level instead of 4th thus giving you a higher mod.  You've "wasted" 4 levels where you could have gotten an extra skill point.... give and take.

[Draco]

Yeah, that's something I would also house-rule to be "retroactive" (that's the word I was lookin for - I am from tunisia/germany...)

I just found 3 other feats the keeper should be able to get as bonus feats:

Create Charm, Friendly Agent, Herbalist.
But since I already got a bunch of Tier-1 talents, where to put them?

But one thing at a time.
Since I also thought, that a Keeper should already be literate at 1st level, maybe giving him one bonus point for languages isn't that bad.
Or making him literate in one language at 1st level, and one bonus point every level therafter...
(I still like the idea about literacy for only one point...)

[Draco]

Well. I've been away for over a year and was doing other stuff, but I recently "rediscovered" this unfinished project.
 
I've also seen that there is a big Fan-made (?) Companion "Tome of Shadows" and if possible, I would be honored to have this class find its way into it.

But, to make this possible, it has to be finished. So I would like to ask if there are some of you, who (still) would like to help me finish it?
The work and efford would of course be credited accordingly.

The question is, do you guys think this class appropriate or worth the efford or not.

[DaveTheMagicWeasel]

I dunno if a new ToS is planned, but I for one would like to see a finished version as it's a good niche to fill up.

As for suggestions - I'd second putting Linguist in as a level 1 class ability.  Wouldn't take anything out for it though (as it stands the chassis is slightly weaker than a Wildlander as it's only medium BAB and d6 HD, so giving them something else seems right).  Plus I think it's something that would be intrinsic to the fluff so shouldn't force players to spend a choice on it.

What it really needs is that 4th level onwards ability slot filled - something to be it's main schtick in combat.  As a suggestion - I always liked the idea behind the Charismatic Path's Inspiring Oration ability, but it falls down because the path doesn't have enough abilities to use with it (and those it does are mostly low level stuff that you get far too late to really care about).

So, how about something similar?  Make the 4th, etc abilities be Inspiring Oration, and then fill up a lot of the Talent slots with buffing spell-like abilities to choose with which to use the ability.

[Draco]

Well first off:
I am happy to see that there is some interest in this project.
Thanks for that.

Second:
I generally like the idea about inspiration like the Charismatic Path or the Charismatic Channeler,
 but "an inspiring speech" delivered in "1 round"?
What kind of speech would THAT be?
Just try and see how far you'll get within 3 seconds...

1 Minute, that might be a good length, or maybe:

"for every round he spends an action, the benefit lasts 1 round"

[DaveTheMagicWeasel]

I find it best not to analyze the D&D round structure too closely, or the 5 ft squares tbh.  Strains credibility in places but for the sake of a playable game it's generally best to abide by the existing conventions.

If you do go a for a full round to maintain ability, then it has to be awesome, otherwise no one will ever use it.

[Draco]

True.

I didn't mean a full-action. Rather a move-action per round.
And maybe CHA as basic lingering duration and a keeper talent that adds to that.

The main problem I see, is whether to copy/mingle with one of the existing "influence abilities" (Charismatic Path/Charismatic Channeler) or trying to get something completely different.

Also the "Loremaster PrC" might be worth a look.

I see the keeper as someone who collects and shares knowledge. So maybe something that allows other characters to use skills, feats and other abilities they don't possess.
Question is: Does the keeper need to know them, or simply one other character in the group, or neither?


IDEA A:
The keeper's exceptional teaching skills allow a group to greatly benefit from the abilities of its members.
1/day (+1 per 3 levels) the keeper can train with a group no greater than his CHA/INT/LEVEL/Combination-there-of for 1 hour.
After this hour, the keeper may select one feat or skill of any of the group's members.
Every group member may use this feat or the skill ranks (not the whole modifier!) as their own.

Every group member can benefit from a number of "trainings" equal to Keeper INT/Keeper CHA/their INT-mod (minimum 1).