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Against the Shadow  |  Forum  |  Midnight & RPGs  |  News (Moderators: Kane, Bleak Knight, Glacialis)  |  Topic: GenCon report
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2009, 07:11:55 PM »

Actually Pathfinder must be OGL or they can't use anything from the SRD at all.

They don't. They have essentially revised everything. The names are sometimes the same, but everything is either worded differently (and often more clearly) or has been mechanically altered. There is actually a Pathfinder specific SRD that is in the works.

I've gotten to look through the new book (it's awesome, btw) and there hasn't been a single cut-and-paste mechanic or description anywhere.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2009, 07:12:36 PM »

I have to chime in and say that this news is both great and distressing.  Midnight and Dark Sun are my two favorite settings and yet I can't stand 4E.  I guess I can see the possibility that it might fit Dark Sun, but Midnight?  Looks like I will be doing a lot of conversion in the years ahead.

Welcome to the boards!
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Nifelhein
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2009, 07:14:30 PM »

Thing is anything derived from the SRD must be open itself thus OGL, the OGl is the SRD license not the D20 license. Wink

And yes, welcome aboard alemander
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« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2009, 08:40:08 PM »

FFG was never a customer friendly company on that regard, sadly.

DVD finally shipped today... no actual reply to my e-mail, though, no apologies, no explanation, nothing.
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TwiceBorn
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« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2009, 08:41:01 PM »

Me, I'm settling in to watch my downloaded movie this evening. Probably gonna hook it up to the giant monitor in the living room, and subject everyone to our combined hopes and fears about it.

And yes, of course, I ordered the DVD too. Here's hoping it show up at some point in the next month.

I'll keep my fingers crossed...
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TwiceBorn
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« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2009, 01:31:41 PM »

DVD finally shipped today... no actual reply to my e-mail, though, no apologies, no explanation, nothing.

I can eat my words now. I received this e-mail today from Evan Hall, Direct Sales Manager at FFG:

We decided to briefly delay the Midnight Chronicles DVD release in order to correct a last-minute printing issue and make sure that we were shipping the best product that we could.  We have been sending out pre-orders yesterday and today, and you can still expect to get your copy well before the DVDs are shipped to retailers.

Thank you for your patience.  Let me know if you have any questions.


I'm curious as to what the last-minute printing issue was, though...
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PhadeOut
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2009, 09:02:04 AM »

Has anyone actually seen the 4e Adventure from the DVD???  Is it a "Midnight" adventure, but using 4e?

And no, I'm not excited, AT ALL, about Midnight going 4e.  But hey, I'm totally happy with all the stuff I have, I have enough material to last.... well, forever in my book.

But I am really curious about this adventure and what is in it!  (If only cause it's might be the first Midnight thing we've seen in a year, or has it been more?)
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Phadeout

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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 03:55:58 PM »

I read through it today. It's a short 25-page adventure for four 1st level characters that takes place in the Westlands in the area between the Sea of Pelluria and the The Ardune. It provides four pregenerated 1st level characters (warlord, fighter, ranger, and rogue), but players could easily create their own as long as they avoided any divine classes that wouldn't work in the Midnight setting. It contains four new Midnight-specific feats and a few new consumable items. Other than that, the characters are pretty standard for 4e D&D. There's no heroic path equivalent, but it looks like they used a 26-point buy for the PCs instead of the standard 22 to give them a bit of an edge. They'll need it because the bad guys are rough.

The first 5 pages provide a quick intro to the setting and the last two pages list the pregenerated PCs. The rest is a pretty well-put-together adventure. I think it captures the flavor of Midnight quite well and includes some good opportunities for roleplaying. As everyone knows, it's written for 4e, which I happen to like unlike many of the people on the boards here. I would personally love to see more 4e support for the Midnight Campaign setting. I've thought about doing my own homebrew 4e conversion for awhile now, but it would be nice if they were to put out something official.
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Arkanoth
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2009, 05:48:46 PM »

I find all this cloak and dagger cr@p with Midnight  disgustingly hilarious in light of what FFG said about their new acquisition, Tannhäuser:

"FFG wants to see the full potential of this game realized. We want this world to be a living breathing thing that we have the privilege of revealing. Currently we are in the process of transition. Take On You is sending us all of the assets for the game, and we will be going over them to see how far along all of the already announced projects are, and to make sure all upcoming projects are as close to perfect as can be. We will be showcasing previews of the upcoming Daedalus map expansion over the coming weeks, and there are a lot of products planned to follow it. We are holding off announcing them until the schedule is much more concrete, which means the time between announcement and when the product is in your hands is kept to a minimum. No more waiting, no more delays. We want this world to come alive, and stagnation is not an option."
Published 04 September 2009 on http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=779

I am nonplussed about this statement and the way they've treated Midnight, both the game and the players. I have been waiting for at least a year and a half for some shred of news on the part of FFG about the Midnight  setting. Now they come out with this for another game? I am offended by this statement and I believe this is a slap in the face to Midnight  players everywhere.
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smeagol
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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2009, 10:03:06 AM »

From my own experience:

When I first came into Midnight, what I was looking for was a self-contained fantasy setting where the bad guys had won. I wasn't even part of the d20 crowd at the time (and fact is I don't use 3.5 for a very long time). The idea was to gather ideas for my own personal rpg, as an inspiration. I really did not plan to use any supplements at all (and at the time, no supplements were planned beyond Minions of Shadow...). I already knew how FFG had abruptly closed lines such as Dragonstar or Blue Planet, so I knew what to expect: as soon as a line is no longer commercially viable, it is closed. FFG needs to live and can't afford to release products that will make it lose money. I perfectly understand and respect that.

 Then I really fell in love with the setting, as I bought supplement after supplement. Looking back at M2E, it contains such a wealth of info, both fluff and crunch, that you could easily play with it alone for years... And with all the already-released supplements and the (great, IMHO) fan production that you can find here, actually there is, honestly, far enough material to decently play for decades.

So, personally, I too would love to see further Midnight material, but I cherish what material I already have, since I can already do a lot of things with it.

Of course, there still is the need for "ready-to-play" material for those who (like me) no longer have time for game prep (adventures, maps, etc). That's what I miss the most. But this site provides lots of help in that regard.

What could be irritating is the inability for newcomers to put their hands on existing supplements, which coud now be hard to find (especially since so few of them have reappeared on drivethrurpg).

If Midnight were to be "resurrected", I'd like to see it done "the Pathfinder way", with adventures that each unfold, little by little, the setting. It would allow players and (new) DMs alike a soft way to get involved with the setting, without being afraid to ingest 500+ pages of fluff before the game even begins...

And I would love it if they released it as a systemless setting, with conversions made on FFG's website. That's the way things should be.
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dimitri mazieres
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« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2009, 11:14:34 AM »

If Midnight were to be "resurrected", I'd like to see it done "the Pathfinder way", with adventures that each unfold, little by little, the setting. It would allow players and (new) DMs alike a soft way to get involved with the setting, without being afraid to ingest 500+ pages of fluff before the game even begins...
This would be wonderful. An Adventure Path set in Midnight could really explore the setting in ways that haven't been done until now. I mean, the published sourcebooks did an excellent job fleshing out the different regions of Eredane and providing new mechanical options, but I think a series of connected adventures would go a long way in conveying the setting's "feel".
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Arkanoth
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2009, 05:55:10 PM »

<quote>by Glacialis on August 14, 2009, 09:31:06 PM
First and most importantly: I'm not naming names or giving any more specific information, but the Midnight RPG is not dead.</quote>

LOL. that reminds me of something...

<quote>
Miracle Max: He probably owes you money huh? I'll ask him.
Inigo Montoya: He's dead. He can't talk.
Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.  </quote>

ROTLMAO.... So Midnight is Mostly dead, which is slightly alive, in turn different than all dead. Go figure...
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Lycurgus
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2009, 06:46:04 PM »

I've ordered the Midnight Chronicles DVD, now I'm just waiting for it to make it's way from the US to New Zealand. Then I'll get my group back together to watch it. It should be cool to revisit the setting.

While my Midnight campaign has now ended I still love the setting and would love to see it continue. I would be interested to see what they would do if they change to 4th Ed (which I think is likely with the adventure being produced using that rule set). While I like 4th Ed, I don't know if it is the right fit for the grim setting. I'm also interested to see how Dark Sun converts to 4th Ed. I don't think 4th Ed is good for roleplaying intensive grim, resource deprived games. But it would be interesting to see.

Also, Doomed Hero, I believe Pathfinder is OGL. It says it is "Open Game Content,
as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d)." It has the OGL v1.0a at the back of the book. It has most of it's rules take from OGL content. Sure they have reworked stuff, but it is still totally derived from it, so I don't see how it can avoid being part of it.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2009, 03:49:00 AM »

Also, Doomed Hero, I believe Pathfinder is OGL. It says it is "Open Game Content,
as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d)." It has the OGL v1.0a at the back of the book. It has most of it's rules take from OGL content. Sure they have reworked stuff, but it is still totally derived from it, so I don't see how it can avoid being part of it.

You know, I noticed that the other day and it threw me for a loop. The research I've done indicates that OGL products are not able to be published any longer. I have no idea how Paizo got around that, but I'm glad they have.

If anyone knows anything about this, I'm very curious. If I'm wrong, that's good, but doesn't explain why Paizo is the only publisher making OGL products.
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Glacialis
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« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2009, 10:02:25 AM »

My favorite settings are Dark Sun and Midnight. I think Dark Sun edges out Midnight -- sorry folks. Smiley

If -- and that's a cynical, haven't-touched-4e, old-school Dark Sun player "if" -- they can pull off Dark Sun in 4e, I have high hopes about Midnight in 4e if that's where FFG chooses to take it.

Given that I've not looked at 4e not because I think it's bad, but because I don't have time/energy for another system, rumor has it the heroic paths are sort of already in 4e. Is there any truth to this?
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Bogmoll
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« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2009, 05:43:44 PM »

You know, I noticed that the other day and it threw me for a loop. The research I've done indicates that OGL products are not able to be published any longer. I have no idea how Paizo got around that, but I'm glad they have.

If anyone knows anything about this, I'm very curious. If I'm wrong, that's good, but doesn't explain why Paizo is the only publisher making OGL products.

I might be wrong about this, but I kind of remember reading something about this. All the guys making OLG stuff got a choice stay with the old or move over to 4ed, you cant do both so chose.
My thinking is this since the 4ed license is so rigid, and Pathfinder is so new, a lot of people has just been waiting to see, what ship to jump on, my guess is that if people buy Pathfinder and it looks like its going to be a hit, we are going to see a lot more stuff for it in the coming months.
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Lycurgus
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« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2009, 12:42:11 PM »

Yeah, I think Bogmoll is right. From my understanding I thought that if you decided to publish under the 4ed license then you were not able to go back to the 3.5 version. Which is interesting with the Midnight 4 Ed module being on the DVD. That may mean that Midnight may not be able to be published under the 3.5 OGL any more. Or rather that new material won't be able to. But haven't really looked at the license stuff much, just stuff I've read, what others have said. So I'm not sure.
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dimitri mazieres
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« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2009, 05:23:05 PM »

As far as I understand it, the OGL doesn't expire, ever. What did expire was the d20 license, so no books can be published under it anymore. But OGL is, for practical purposes, pretty much eternal. But since there wasn't a common "OGL core rules" book, and under the OGL you can't reference the Player's Handbook, Paizo decided to publish their own, so they would have an in-print rules reference.

As for 4th edition, initially the GSL prevented you from publishing products for any other system, but I think that the latest revision relaxed that condition a bit. For example, EN Publishing is releasing their War of the Burning Sky adventure path for 4e, while keeping the 3e version available.
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Lycurgus
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« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2009, 04:04:36 AM »

That is good to hear that they have relaxed things.
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