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Author Topic: Reworking Heroic Paths  (Read 82593 times)
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 01:06:52 PM »

Yeah, it's supposed to be Dazzed. Stunning is just the name of the ability.

As for True Fae, DR all/magic or cold iron is not that bad for 20th level. What do you think is going to be attacking something with a non-magical weapon at that point?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 01:34:06 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged

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Sholano
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 02:08:23 PM »

As for True Fae, DR all/magic or cold iron is not that bad for 20th level. What do you think is going to be attacking something with a non-magical weapon at that point?
Thus no significant objection.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2009, 02:02:49 AM »

This one took forever. I just couldn't pack in all the stuff i wanted to and still make it thematic and stylish.

These guys aren't about shambling plants following them about. They're more about subtly (or sometimes not so subtly) animating the plants around them to wreak havoc on their enemies. they are battlefield controllers in the most literal sense.
 

Nature Friend revisit

1 Natural Bond, Nature's Armory
2 Woodland Stride
3 Path of the Fern
4 Nature Provides
5 +1 Con, Wis or Chr
6 Pass without a trace
7 Nature Provides
8 Path of the Rose
9 Flower Child, Nature's Armory
10 Nature Provides
11 Tree Stride
12 +1 Con, Wis or Chr
13 Nature Provides
14 Hide In Plain Sight
15 Path of the Kudzu
16 Nature Provides
17 +1 Con, Wis or Chr
18 Life Seed
19 One With The Wood
20 Avatar of Nature


Natural Bond: You have an instinctive connection with the natural world. You gain a +2 insight bonus to Survival and Knowledge: Nature checks. These skills are always class skills for you. In addition, the natural world seems to provide for you. You gain a +10 bonus on checks made to find food or water while in a natural environment. You may also use Knowledge: Nature in place of Diplomacy and Sense Motive when interacting with intelligent plants.

Nature's Armory: Plants around you work to hamper your foes. By subtly growing and animating roots, grasses and vines you cause flora to rearrange themselves into devastating traps. You may use this ability as a standard action a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your character level plus your Wisdom modifier. Upon using this ability, you create a Mechanical (non-magical) trap of a CR equal to your character level using the Trap Design rules.
These traps last one day, after which they revert to normal examples of the plants they were formed from.
This trap takes no actual effort or money on your part, but may be limited (at the GM's discretion) according to the types of plants in the area (it may be impossible to create a deadfall trap on the open plains, for example). In some areas there may not be any vegetation capable of using this ability on. The GM is the final arbiter.
Seeing these traps is extremely difficult. They are considered camouflaged as if the Naturefriend had taken 20 on a survival check to hide them.
The nature friend can disarm any natural trap they are aware of as a free action as long as they are within range, even if they did not create the trap themselves (this may be useful for bypassing natural pitfalls). A Naturefriend never accidentally sets off their own traps. The Naturefriend may also craft nature-based traps normally, using Knowledge: Nature instead of Craft: Trapmaking. Crafting a trap in this way does not use up a use of this ability. Traps crafted this way are normal traps in all ways and do not become inert after one day.
At 9th level, this ability is able to produce Magical traps in addition to Mechanical traps, but is only able to incorporate plant-related spells. The naturefriend does not have to be able to cast a spell in order to make a trap that casts it.

Woodland Stride: You never receive movement penalties associated with dense undergrowth, uneven terrain or other hindrances caused by thick flora.

Pass Without a Trace: You are permanently affected by a Pass Without Trace spell while in an area rich with plant life.

Nature Provides: Each time this ability is gained you may choose one of the following abilities.

Camouflage: Plants around you actually move to aid you in avoiding notice. While in an area with plants that can naturally provide cover (trees, tall grass, wide leafed ferns, ect) you receive a +5 Insight bonus to Hide checks.

Protection: If you are adjacent to (or sharing space with) plants or trees of at least Large size you gain a +1 deflection bonus to your Armor Class. For each size category beyond Large this bonus increases by 1. For the purposes of this ability, the size category of tall plants (such as trees or climbing vines) is based on thickness of their base. For example, if an Oak tree is 60 feet tall with a 15 foot base, this ability counts the tree as Huge. (huge creatures have a 15 foot base). For plants that tend to sprawl (such as a tangle of rosebushes or vines) this ability counts their size based on their height. A ten foot tall, 30 foot wide patch of briars would be considered Large.

Terrain: You are considered to have rolled a 20 anytime you make a Survival or Spot check to find an area with the appropriate terrain for their intended goals. This includes things such as finding wide tree with a hollow base for taking cover in during a storm, a steep hill with a large tree at the top, perfect for an extended defense, finding a bottleneck surrounded by difficult to avoid foliage to stage an ambush at, or a natural stream to provide a defense against the Fire Elementals pursuing them. This ability does not allow the naturefriend to find terrain made up of specific types of trees, plants or earth and does not allow the Naturefriend to find terrain features that cannot or should not exist in the area they are in (this ability will never allow you to find a copse of trees in a wasteland or briar patch in the tundra.)

Nurturing: You are considered to have rolled a 20 any time you use Survival or Search to look for medicinal plants.

Wrath: You are considered to have rolled a 20 anytime you use Survival to find toxic, poisonous or harmful plants. In addition, you never risk poisoning yourself when making or applying poisons made from plants.

Flower Child: Your bond with nature is changing you physically. Your sweat and natural scents take on a sugary sweet smell and taste. Creatures with the Scent ability take a -10 penalty to pinpoint your exact location if you are in a natural environment, but gain a +5 bonus on detecting your passing if you are not. You begin attracting creatures that use flowers as food sources, like bees and hummingbirds. You no longer take damage from sharing a square with an insect swarm. They never see you as a threat and will not bite.  Your touch can pollinate any plant, germinate any seed, heal any injured plant. Plants and Plant Creatures you are in contact with gain Fast Healing 1. If you continue to touch them after they are fully healed they will begin to grow at a rate of one month's growth per round. Once they reach their maximum adult size they will begin flowering, bearing fruit or releasing spores (whichever they do). Healing and growing plants in this way becomes eventually taxing. Each day you can use this ability without effort for a number of rounds equal to your character level. For each round beyond that number that you continue to use this ability you will begin taking one point of Starvation damage and have to make a fortitude save each round equal to 10+ the amount of Starvation damage you have taken. If you fail you must break contact and stop using this ability. This ability cannot be used if you have unhealed Starvation damage or if you are Exhausted.

Path of the Fern: For a number of rounds per day equal to your character level you may cause ferns to rapidly grow in your footsteps. Areas you pass through fill with wide-leaved ferns. These ferns are roughly 5 feet tall, grow (initially) in a patch 5 feet wide, and provide concealment to creatures behind them. The round following their initial growth each square of ferns spreads to one square adjacent to them (if possible), effectively doubling the thickness of their area. This is a permanent effect and lasts until the ferns are destroyed or die naturally.

Path of the Rose: You can cause roses to grow in your wake. This ability acts exactly as Path of the Fern with the following adjustments: Using and maintaining this ability costs two rounds of the Path of the Fern ability. The roses are treated exactly like the Ferns, except that they are also considered Difficult Terrain (cost double movement, cannot be charged or tumbled through, ect.)

Path of the Kudzu: You can cause a thick tangle of gnarled vines to sprout behind you. Treat this ability exactly like Path of the Fern with the following differences: Activating and maintaining this ability costs 3 rounds of the Path of the Fern ability. The Kudzu is thick, hard and tangled. Moving through it is done at a maximum of 5 feet per round. It tends to sag and support weight poorly making climbing over it impossible for any creature weighing more than 10 pounds per foot of height of the Kudzu. Once on top of it creatures much make balance checks at a DC of 10+1 per 10 pounds of weight of the creature. If they fail they fall into the kudzu and are Entangled until they can make a Strtength or Escape Artist check (DC 10 +1/2 the naturefriend's character level + their Wisdom modifier). The Kudzu continues to grow and spread for as long as the ability is active. Each round after their initial growth it spreads an additional 5 feet in thickness and gains an additional 2 feet in height.

Tree Stride: A number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, you may step into a tree and exit another nearby tree at the beginning of your next action. You may travel a total distance each day equal to 20 feet per point of wisdom modifier. Using this ability is a spell like ability that takes a standard action. In order to use this ability, both the tree you are entering and the tree you are exiting must be at least one size category larger than you.

Hide In Plain Sight: While in a natural environment, you may hide even while being observed.

Life Seed: You gain the ability to produce a Life Seed. If you plant it in healthy, fertile ground it will begin to germinate and slowly grow into a large plant. If you should die, you will return to life, growing out of this plant, being reborn one day as the massive petals spread. The time it takes for this ability to activate is dependent on the time of year. In spring it takes 1d6 days. In Summer, 3d6 days. In fall, 6d6 days. This ability does not function in winter. If you die in winter (or in autumn, but roll high enough to put the number of days into winter), the Life Seed has a chance to survive until spring equal to 10% per point of your Constitution modifier. If it survives winter, you will be reborn 1d6 days into spring. Producing a Life Seed requires one minute and the expenditure of one point of constitution. This constitution loss is permanent as long as the Life Seed (or the plant that grows from it) is alive. A Life Seed plant dies as soon as you are reborn from it. If you have more than one Life Seed planted, when you die you are reborn from the closest one.

One With the Wood: You may pass thorough any object made of or from plants as if it were not there.

Avatar of Nature: You become both a Plant creature and an Elemental, taking on the traits of each. In addition, while in contact with fertile ground you gain Regeneration/fire 10. While in sunlight you gain Fast Heal 10. You r appearance changes so that you appear to be made out of the prominent plants in the area, taking on traits of those nearest to you. This means that you cannot be tracked by scent, or by most extraordinary sensory abilities.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:21:44 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
Luiniel Blades
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2009, 05:47:01 AM »

I was just going over your Heroic Path list and noticed you missed the angelblessed path.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 09:05:29 PM »

Finally getting back to this. Nature friend (above), Fellhunter,  Chanceborn and Painless up (below). Faithful in the works. Tell me what you think.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 09:30:51 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 09:09:59 PM »

How do you make these guys cool and do what they are intended to do without stepping on the ironborn's toes? The trick is to find their neatest ability and expand it. In this case, it's the fact that even when they are supposed to be long dead, they keep going. Being Disabled means nothing to them, in fact, it's when they are at their best.

Their abilities can ramp up pretty large in the later levels, but remember that when those abilities are kicking in, they are sitting right on the edge of death. It's a risk the player has to balance for their character. Do you play it safe, or get out there and get bloody so you can really start to kick butt?


Painless rework

1 Die Hard, Stitch it Up, Increased Death Threshold
2 Shirt of Scars
3 Bloody Focus +1, Uncaring +1
4 Mettle
5 Just a Flesh Wound
6 Bloody Focus +2
7 Bloody Mess +1
8 Uncaring +2
9 Bloody Focus +3
10 Uncaring Stance
11 Improved Mettle
12 Bloody Focus +4
13 Uncaring +3
14 Call of Blood
15 Bloody Mess +2
16 Bloody Focus +5
17 Uncaring +4
18 Gift of Pain
19 Unfazeable
20 Death Proof, Bloody Focus +6


Die Hard: You gain Die Hard as a bonus feat.

Stitch It Up: You are used to bleeding. You've learned how to put yourself back together very well. Heal is always a class skill for you, and you never take penalties for using the Heal skill on yourself.

Increased Death Threshold: You refuse to die when you should. You add your level to your death threshold.

Shirt of Scars: You have thick skin. You gain DR against non-lethal damage equal to your character level.

Uncaring: You gain the listed bonus to all Mind effecting, Enchantment and Fear saves. In addition, you gain the listed bonus against any effect that would leave you Stunned, Sickened, or Staggered, or when making concentration checks against damage during spellcasting.

Mettle: If you makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against a spell or ability that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect

Bloody Focus: Each time you gain this ability, choose one of the following traits. Any time you would normally be disabled or in negative hit points you gain the effects of that trait.

Bloody Offering: You may choose to injure yourself in order to let forth your pent-up emotions and survival instincts. As a Move action you may chose to deal 1d6 damage to yourself in order to gain bonuses as though you were at Negative Hit Points equal to the damage taken by this ability until the end of your next action. This damage must draw blood in some fashion (slashing or piercing damage). This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier.

Bloody Reprisal: (requires Bloody Offering) When struck in combat by an attack that draws blood you may choose to activate Bloody Offering as an Immediate Action.

Bloody Grin: You gain the listed bonus to Intimidate checks.

Bloody Will: You gain the listed bonus to Will saves.

Bloody Toughness: You gain the listed bonus to Fortitude saves.

Bloody Quickness: You gain the listed bonus to Reflex saves.

Bloody Accuracy: You gain the listed bonus to Attacks.

Bloody Strength: You gain the listed bonus to Damage.

Bloody Defense: You gain the listed bonus to Armor Class.

Bloody Prowess: You gain the listed bonus to Combat Maneuvers.

Bloody Resilience: You gain the listed bonus to Combat Maneuver Defense.

Bloody Reflexes: You gain the listed bonus as additional Attacks of Opportunity per round.

Bloody Power: You gain the listed bonus to your Spell Energy. This spell energy is temporary and only lasts as long as you are in negative HP. If you heal above -1 the spell energy drains from your pool. This does not deal constitution damage as if you had "overchanneled". This ability activates the first time you reach negative hit points in a given day. If you use Bloody Offering or Call of Blood you may choose not to activate this ability.

Bloody Focus:  You gain the listed bonus to your effective caster level.

Bloody Evasion: (requires Bloody Quickness) While in negative hit points you gain Evasion.

Improved Bloody Evasion: (requires Bloody Evasion) While in negative hit points you gain Improved Evasion.

Bloody Dodge: (requires Bloody Defense and Bloody Resilience) While in negative hit points you may choose to dodge one attack per round that would otherwise hit you.

Bloody Assault: (requires Bloody Accuracy and Bloody Strength) While in negative hit points you gain an additional attacks. You gain one additional attack during a full-attack action for every ten hit points below zero you are (rounded down). In addition, when making a single attack as a standard action, you may take extra attacks granted by this ability as well.

Bloody Arcana: (requires Bloody Focus, Bloody Power and any metamagic feat), for every five hit points points (rounded down) under zero you are, you may reduce the additional cost of any metamagic feat use by one.

Bloody Mess: you gain the listed bonus to your critical multiplier for any weapon you wield.

Just a Flesh Wound: On your action during any round you are in negative hit points and using the Die Hard feat to act as though you were only Disabled, you may choose to take a full-round action instead of only a standard. If you do, you take 1 point of damage.

Uncaring Stance: You may choose to allow yourself to be hit any time an enemy rolls to attack you. If you do, you gain an immediate attack of opportunity against that enemy.

Improved Mettle If you fail a Will or Fort save against an effect that would have had a reduced effect if the save had succeeded, you automatically take the reduced effect.

Call of Blood: The first time you are hit in combat you gain all your bonuses as if you were at negative hit points until the end of your next action.

Gift of Pain: You are so familiar with the inner workings of pain that any time you make a successful critical hit against a creature, that creature is Staggered until they receive a successful DC 25 Heal check or receive magical healing.

Unfazeable: You become immune to mind effects, fear effects, sleep effects, and stun effects.

Death Proof: While at negative Hit Points, you gain Regeneration 1. Nothing short of decapitation will stop this Regeneration.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:43:20 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 09:13:37 PM »

The cool thing here is the luck dice, so I decided that they should be all about those awesome things. These guys have a hard time failing at higher levels, but I don't feel it overshadows any other character, because this path only ramps up what the character can already do (increases their odds Wink). it doesn't really add anything to their bag of tricks.

Sholano, this one's for you.


Chanceborn rework

1 Lucky (1d4)
2 Fool's Luck
3 Betting Wild
4 Lucky (2d4)
5 Cheat At Life
6 5% miss chance
7 +1 luck bonus to all saves
8 Lucky (3d4)
9 Tempt Fate
10 Cheat At Life
11 10% miss chance
12 Lucky (4d4)
13 When The Chips Are Down
14 +2 luck bonus to all saves
15 Cheat At Life
16 Lucky (5d4)
17 20% miss chance
18 Double Down
19 Cheat Death
20 Against All Odds

Lucky: As the you raise in level you gain a pool of dice each day that you can use to give yourself a retroactive bonus to a roll you just made. This bonus can be applied after you see the result of any d20 roll. At the time you choose to apply the bonus dice you must choose how many to add. You may not add bonus dice to a roll, and then decide (after seeing the result) to add more bonus dice.

Fool's Luck: When you run out of Luck Dice you gain a bonus to AC, Skill checks, Saving Throws and Attacks equal to your maximum number of Luck dice. This is a Luck bonus that lasts until Luck dice are regained.

Betting Wild: As a free action after you declare your action, but before you roll the dice, you may declare you are using this ability. Roll a dice. On an even result you gain a bonus to the declared action equal to your maximum number of Luck Dice. On an odd result, you gain a penalty of the same amount.

Cheat At Life: Each time you gain this ability, choose one of the abilities below.

Load the Dice: You may spend a Luck Dice to Take 10 on your next roll. You gain a +1 bonus to the roll for each luck dice you have already spent today (up to your normal maximum). You may add Luck dice to this roll as normal.

Stack the Deck: Any time you are subject to an effect which has non-damage variables generated randomly (such as spells with variable durations), you may spend a luck dice to make the variable any number you choose, within the normal range.

Ace in the Hole: You may spend a luck dice to reduce an opponent's last roll by 1d4+1 per luck dice you have spent today (up to your normal maximum).

Lucky Break: Whenever you are subject to an attack or targeted effect you may spend a luck dice to gain a miss chance equal to 20%+10% per luck dice already spent today (up to your normal maximum).

Tempt Fate: As a free action at the end of your turn you may declare you are taking a penalty to Saving Throws and Armor Class up to your maximum number of Luck Dice. At the beginning of your next turn you gain a bonus to attacks and damage equal to that penalty. This ability may only be used once combat has been initiated.

When The Chips Are Down: Any time you take damage greater than your character level from one attack or effect you have a chance of gaining a Luck Dice equal to 10% x the number of luck dice you have spent today (up to a maximum equal to your maximum number of luck dice). You cannot ever have more luck dice than your normal maximum.

Cheat Death: Any time you would die, you may spend a Luck Dice to not die. You are instead reduced to 0 Hit Points (If you are at negative hit points you are actually raised to 0 by the shock). In addition, any time you would be reduced from positive hit points to negative hit points you may spend a luck dice to instead be reduced to 0.

Double Down: If you successfully hit an opponent you may choose to spend a luck dice and deal minimum damage. If you do, your next successful hit against the same opponent is a Critical Hit.

Against All Odds: You may spend a Luck Dice to roll a Natural 20.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:26:09 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2010, 09:16:56 PM »

There aren't a whole lot of undead in most campaigns, so this path isn't going to get a whole lot of play. To make it appealing, it really needs to be a cut above the others in their very specific niche.

That being said, the undead don't really have much of a chance against these guys. (which, I think, is the way it should be.)

Fellhunter rework

1 Sense the Dead
2 Channel Energy 1d6
3 Hunter of the Dead, Turn Undead
4 Channel Energy 2d6
5 Spurn Death's Touch
6 Ward of Life (Ability Damage), Channel Energy 3d6
7 Disruptive Attack
8 Hide form Undead, Channel Energy 4d6
9 Hunter of the Dead
10 Font of Life, Channel Energy 5d6
11 Ward of Life (Energy Drain)
12 To Dust, Channel Energy 6d6
13 Arm the Mob
14 Channel Energy 7d6
15 Hunter of the Dead
16 Duststorm, Channel Energy 8d6
17 Ward of Life (Death Effects)
18 Channel Energy 9d6
19 Hunter of the Dead
20 Deathslayer, Channel Energy 10d6

Sense the Dead: Within a radius of 10 feet per level, you have the ability to sense the undead. This ability acts in all ways as detect Evil, except that it is always active, and only works regarding undead creatures.

Channel Positive Energy: This ability works exactly like the ability of the same name described in the Pathfinder Core Rules book, except that it does not heal living creatures in it's radius. It is only able to harm creatures normally harmed by positive energy.

Hunter of the Dead: Each time you gain this ability, choose one of the following categories of undead. You gain the ability to supernaturally track the passage of undead creatures of that category. You are assumed to have the Track feat when tracking these undead and may add your character level to Survival checks made to track them or identify them based on their trail. This ability even works on creatures which do not normally leave tracks, such as Ghosts.
In addition, every time this ability is gained, you learn how to best combat undead of that category, gaining an instinctive grasp of those creatures weaknesses. By spending ten minutes specially preparing a weapon, you make that weapon act as though it had the Bane enchantment for that category of undead for one day. This weapon only gains this ability when wielded by the Fellhunter who prepared it. Any weapon my only be treated for one category of undead at a time.
Categories:
Risen: Undead such as Fell, Zombies, Skeletons, and other similar creatures usually raised unwillingly.
Revenants: Ghosts, Wraiths, Poltergeists and other similar non-corporial undead.
Parasites: Vampires, Vampire Spawn and other similar life-like undead.
Abominations: Mhorg, Bodak, Liches, and other undead created by unique circumstances.

Turn Undead You gain Turn Undead, as described in the Pathfinder Core Rules book, as a bonus feat.

Spurn Death's Touch: Any time you are effected by a special attack or ability from an undead creature which requires a saving throw, you may roll twice and take the better of the two results.

Disruptive Attack: As a free action once per round, you may expend one of your Channel Energy uses to turn any attack against an undead creature into a disruptive attack. This adds your Channel Energy damage to your damage with that weapon. in addition, the undead creature struck must make a saving throw (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Charisma modifier) or be destroyed.

Ward of Life: You become immune to many of the life-disruptive effects of the undead. At 6th level you become immune to ability damage and ability drain caused by undead. At 11th level you become immune to energy drain caused by attacks or abilities possessed by the undead. At 16th level you become immune to any death effect possessed by the undead.

Hide From Undead: You cannot be detected by any undead's extraordinary or supernatural detection abilities. They must attempt to see or hear you normally.

Font of Life: The Fellhunter's touch is anathema to undead. Any time a Fellhunter is struck by an undead creature's natural weapons, that creature takes 1d6 damage. In the case of draining abilities, such as a vampire's blood drain, or a wraith's touch, the creature instead takes the same effect themselves that they would normally effect the Fellhunter with. (Instead of gaining 10 hit points from draining a Fellhunter, a Vampire would instead take 10 points of damage. Instead of draining a level from a Fellhunter, a wraith instead gains one negative level themselves) These reciprocal effects are considered positive energy effects, and work on undead even if they would normally be immune to such things.

To Dust: Any time an undead creature is destroyed by one of your attacks, you may make an additional attack at a creature you threaten as a free action. In the case of a melee attack, this extra attack must be against another creature you threaten in melee, as your weapon blasts through the dust left by the undead creature destroyed in the wake of your swing. In the case of a ranged attack, this extra attack must be along the weapon's normal travel arc or line as the projectile continues on unimpeded by the creature it just destroyed. You may only make one additional attack in this manor per attack.

Arm the Mob: By spending one minute with a weapon you may cause it to act as if it were a weapon specially made to harm an undead creature from one of the categories of undead specified by your Hunter of the Dead ability. That weapon gains a +2 to attack and damage against those creatures, and acts as though it were a weapon made of any material those creatures are weak against. This treatment lasts for 12 hours.

Duststorm: This ability functions exactly like To Dust except there is no longer any limit to the number of extra attacks you can make. So long as you keep destroying your undead enemies you may continue to make extra attacks.

Deathslayer: Any undead creature who enters the range of your Sense the Dead ability must make a DC 20 will save or be destroyed. Any creature slain within range of your Sense the Dead ability cannot be raised as undead, ever. Any undead creature slain within range of your Sense the Dead ability is utterly destroyed and cannot be returned to unlife even if they would normally reconstitute somehow.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:37:10 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 02:02:50 AM »

Nice work, DH... And just in time...  Smiley
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 03:07:05 AM »

Thanks. You might notice these are written to be Pathfinder compatible.

More to come soon.
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roccojr
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« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2010, 09:39:59 AM »

More! Definitely for PF! Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2010, 12:38:47 AM »

Thanks. You might notice these are written to be Pathfinder compatible.

More to come soon.

Of course I noticed...  Smiley
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2010, 04:01:47 PM »

I ramped these guys up a lot. They basically have all the spell-likes they used to, only now given out at levels where they are appropriately powered, plus they have some other unique abilities to keep them from being overshadowed by any caster with the Divination school.

Their set of abilities that essentially allow for "do overs" are not only a huge safety-net for the party, but also an excuse for the GM not to have to fudge or play nice. They are powerful and useful, but the price gets heavy if the group is prone to mistakes or bad luck.

Seer rework

In every culture there are tales of prophets. Some people are able to see the future, or the past, or simply learn things about the present that are beyond the ken of mortals.
Those born to the Path of the Seer do not experience time or space normally. To them, things seem to skip around a bit. Many die or go mad as a side effect of the temporal disorientation. Those few that survive become powerful and knowledgeable beyond measure.

1 Knowledge Aforethought (Augery, Alarm)
2 Postcognition (1/day)
3 Knowledge Aforethought (Locate Object)
4 Miss Chance 5%
5 Knowledge Aforthought (Clairaudiance/Clairvoyance, Locate Creature)
6 Visions of Misfortune
7 Knowledge Aforethought (Divination)
8 Miss Chance 10%, Postcognition (2/day)
9 Flash of Knowledge, Knowledge Aforethought (Scrying)
10 Visions of Doom
11 Postcognition (3/day), Knowledge Aforethought (Commune)
12 Miss Chance 15%
13 Knowledge Aforethought (Vision)
14 Postcognition (4/day)
15 Visions of Death, Knowledge Aforethought (Moment of Prescience)
16 Miss Chance 20%
17 Knowledge Aforethought (Foresight)
18 Postcognition (5/day)
19 Fateshaper
20 Master of Visions


Special: At his discretion, the DM may activate one of the seer's spell-like abilities (though not when doing so would endanger the seer, such as during combat) in order to convey useful story information to the party. Doing so does not cost one of the Seer's ability uses, and the ability may work in ways that the Seer is unable to duplicate with their normal use.
Additionally, because the seer's powers do not actually rely on communcaion with a divine entity, all of her spell-like abilities convey information using sight, sound, smell, and other sensory information, rather than actual words. For instance, augury would provide a positive or negative feeling when the seer thinks about a particular course of action, rather than the words "weal" or "woe."

Knowledge Aforethought: You begin to gain glimpses into the future. Each day you gain a number of Precognition Points equal to 1/2 your character level plus your Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma modifier. (This must be chosen at the time this ability is gained and cannot be changed) You may expend these points to cast a number of spells, as indicated on the table above, as spell-like abilities. Each spell costs a number of points equal to their spell level.

Postcognition: Your touch reveals much about the history of the world around you. You may touch an object and attempt to learn the relevant events of it's history. When you use this ability, make a Level Check and consult the table below.

1-5: No relevant information.
6-10: Brief and jumbled information. Only the most recent events, or events that are overwhelmingly significant. Information may be incomplete or out of order, flashes of events, like still-frames, without context, confusing or misleading.
11-15: The most significant events, and the events relevant to you are seen in a brief, difficult to understand chronology. This is like looking at a jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. The general idea of the picture can be made out, but much is guesswork and assumptions.
16-20: All the object's major events, owners, and experiences become known to you in a series of images. You receive a brief history of the object, told in the form of a visual montage. Much is missing, but the information relevant to you is clear.
21-25: Even minor details flash into your mind. It is as if you were personally around for most of the object's existence, observing it casually. Even information that may not be relevant to you becomes known.
26+: A complete history, including even the most seemingly insignificant events. In an instant, you learn as much as if you had read a comprehensive and detailed history of the object in question.

Miss Chance: You occasionally get flashes of knowledge that warn you of danger, allowing you to step out of the way in the nick of time. You gain the listed Miss Chance.

Visions of Misfortune: You begin seeing glimpses of possible futures at all times. Most of the time they happen to late to help, but with terrible effort you can react in time. By wrenching yourself out of your vision prematurely you can try to change fate in the immediate future. You may choose to take two points of Charisma damage to force any opponent that has just made a roll, to re-roll the result. This loss of Charisma takes ten times the normal amount of time to recover from, and cannot be magically healed. This ability may only be used once per roll.

Visions of Doom: By forcing yourself to delve deeper into your visions, you are able to gain a much better grasp on possible events. Doing such is taking, and begins to break down your ability to focus on the real world. Any time during combat, as an Immediate action, you may choose to take two points of Wisdom damage in order to reset a combat round to the top of the initiative order. This undoes any actions that have already occurred. These actions are assumed to be a vision you had. No creature other than you are aware of any of the events which were undone. The time it takes to heal Wisdom damage taken as a result of using this ability is measured in months instead of days and cannot be healed magically. This may only be done once per round, even if the results or resetting the round cause worse things to occur.

Flash of Knowledge: By expending two uses of your Knowledge Aforethought ability, you may now use your Knowledge Aforethought ability as a swift action. This ability only works on spells with a casting time of one round or less.

Visions of Death: By forcing yourself to observe may of the possibilities that continually pass before your eyes, you gain the ability to observe long, involved causal branches and observe possible futures. This is taxing, and causes severe mental fatuigue. As an Immediate action, you may choose to take two points of Intelligence damage in order to reset any actions that have taken place in the past day to any point earlier in that day. All actions that had previously taken place are assumed to be a vision. No creature other than you are aware of any of the events which were undone. The time it takes to heal Intelligence damage taken as a result of using this ability is measured in years instead of days and cannot be healed magically. This ability cannot be used again until an amount of time equal to the amount undone has passed. For Example: If you reset two weeks of time, this ability is unusable during those two weeks. Essentially, you cannot use this ability until time "catches up" with time reset by this ability.

Fateshaper: Each round on your turn you may choose two different actions, play them out and observe the results, and choose one of them. This becomes the result of your actions that round. The other is considered to have been a vision. This ability may only be used on actions that are significantly different, such as attacking with a weapon or casting a spell. This does not allow you to simply choose two similar actions and take the better result.

Master of Visions: You no longer take attribute damage from using your Seer abilities.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 06:59:18 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
Doomed Hero
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« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2010, 05:21:43 PM »

Next up, we have the Faithful. Originally this path was not much more than a pile of spell-likes with very limited uses, most of which stopped seeing use after a few levels when the new stuff came into play. I really liked the "Cleric Of The Lost Gods" feel of the path, but I didn't think it was done in a way that made it as effective as, say, the Guardian, which could easily be angled for a similar feel without sacrificing effectiveness.

What these guys are supposed to do is toss around blessings and protections, so I figured, why not let them do that. A high level Faithful should be able to dole out low-level spells like Bless and Protection From Evil like candy. The way I decided to do this was to have a central pool to draw from, and simply have higher level abilities cost more. The Faithful then has a choice of a lot of little stuff or one or two big things.

The trick was when I realized that the faithful actually had three different sets of spells, and that it felt odd to have them overlap. The majority of what they do is cast temporary buffs (blessings) but they also have a smaller number of protective spells and offensive spells. The solution was actually to have 3 separate pools of energy, one for each. So far this is the most complex of the paths, but I think it works out pretty well in terms of versatility, flavor, and additional options to the player.


Faithful rework

1 Bestow Blessing, Minor Blessing
2 Bestow Warding, Minor Warding
3 Bestow Judgement, Minor Judgement
4  +1 Wis
5 Lesser Blessing
6 Lesser Warding
7 Lesser Judgement
8 +1 Wis
9 Blessing
10 Warding
11 Judgement
12 +1 Wis
13 Greater Blessing
14 Greater Warding
15 Greater Judgement
16 +1 Wis
17 True Blessing
18 True Warding
19 True Judgement
20 Faith Rewarded


Note: All a Faithful's spell like abilities are Wisdom based.

Bestow Blessing: You are a natural channel for goodness and residual holy energy left by servants of the lost gods from before the sundering. Each dawn you gather a number of Blessing Points equal to your level which you may use to fuel spell-like abilities.

Minor Blessing: You learn to bestow Bless, Bless Water and Bless Weapon as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 1 Blessing point.

Bestow Warding: You can shape residual holy energy into powerful protective magics.  Each dawn you gather a number of Warding Points equal to 1/2 your level which you may use to fuel the following spell-like abilities.

Minor Warding: You learn to bestow Protection From Evil, Sanctuary and Shield of Faith as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 1 Warding point.

Bestow Judgement: You may use residual Holy energy o blast your enemies with the wrath of the lost gods. Each day you gain a number of Judgement points equal to 1/2 your character level which you may use to fuel the following abilities.

Minor Judgment: You learn to bestow Doom and Bane as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 1 Judgement point.

Lesser Blessing: You learn to bestow Aid and Divine Favor as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 2 Blessing points each.

Lesser Warding: You learn to bestow Resist Energy and Zone of Truth as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 2 Warding points.

Lesser Judgment: You learn to bestow Hold Person as a spell-like ability which costs 2 Judgement points.

Blessing: You learn to bestow Prayer, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace and Bear's Endurance as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 3 Blessing points each.

Warding: You learn to bestow Consecrate and Magic Circle Against Evil as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 3 Warding points.

Judgment: You learn to bestow Searing Light as a spell-like ability which costs 3 Judgement points.

Greater Blessing: You learn to bestow Divine Power and Greater Magic Weapon as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 4 Blessing points each.

Greater Warding: You learn to bestow Death Ward as a spell-like ability which costs 4 Warding points.

Greater Judgment: You learn to bestow Dispel Evil as spell-like ability which costs 4 Judgement points.

True Blessing: You learn to bestow Atonement and Holy Aura as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 5 Blessing points each.

True Warding: You learn to bestow Hallow as a spell-like ability which costs 5 Warding points.

True Judgment: You learn to bestow Flame Strike and Holy Word as spell-like abilities, each of which cost 5 Judgement points.

Faith Rewarded: Once per year you may cast Miracle without paying any of the usual costs.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 05:44:50 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
Doomed Hero
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« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2010, 06:24:32 PM »

The spellsoul is a weird path. It relies on other creatures actions to activate it's abilities, and tends to mess with things pretty well when they do. The idea seems to be that a spellsoul is some kind of eddy in the flow of magic. I like this idea, so I decided that would be the focus of my Spellsoul rework.

The first thing I wanted was for the new spellsoul to be able to use a few of it's tricks when there weren't other casters around, but I didn't think they should have a reliable spell list. That's where the Wild Caster power came from. They have a list of spells that randomizes itself. They have a small list of things that they know they can do, but they never know which one is going to show up on thier fingertips next. On the up side, it means that they don't have to worry about spells being divided by school. They can just pick and choose.

The next thing that I wanted was for them to be able to effect magic like they always could, only better. Like the Fellhunter, the meat of thier abilities are contingent, which menas they ought to be more impressive.

The last thing that I wanted was for them to act as a sort of spell-vampire. they drain other magics to power thier own. This means that, yes, they become even more contingent on others, but it also means that the player gets a more dynamic and interesting experience as their options keep changing and they have to weigh a big ability off of the chance that they might not have a chance to refuel for a while.

Enough talk- Take a look.



Wyrd   a re-envisioning of the Spellsoul

1 Instability, Wild Caster
2 Spell Splitter, Eyes of Chaos
3 Metamagic Aura: (enlarge or shape)
4 Bonus Raw Energy +2
5 Wild Drain 1x per day
6 Metamagic Aura: (extend or empower)
7 Spell Roulette
8 Bonus Raw Energy +2
9 Metamagic Aura: (energy substitution or explosive)
10 Overchannel
11 Wild Drain 2x per day
12 Metamagic Aura: (sculpt or widen)
13 Bonus Raw Energy +2
14 Spell Transfer
15 Metamagic Aura: (maximize or heighten)
16 Duplicate Spell
17 Wild Drain 3x per day
18 Metamagic Aura: (twin or chain)
19 Transfer Enchantment
20 Spell Vortex

Note: Spells and spell-like abilities granted by this path are not subject to Arcane Spell Failure.

Instability: (su) Magic does strange things around you. As such, you may not take the Spellcasting or Magecraft feats. You do have a natural spell pool with a maximum equal to your character level plus your Charisma modifier (plus any additional spell energy granted from other sources such as feats or being of a certain race.), but it does not regenerate in the usual way. You regain spell energy by syphoning off magical energies around you. Whenever a spell is cast within a radius of you equal to 5 feet per character level, you may choose to increase it's cost by an amount up to 1/4 your character level (rounded down). The caster of the spell loses spell energy equal to that number and you gain it. In addition, as a touch attack you may drain Spell Energy out of magical auras. If a spell is in effect on a creature or object, you may make a touch attack to syphon off some of it's power. If the touch attack is successful, the Wyrd makes a Caster level check (using thier character level as thier caster level) if successful, the spell loses 1/2 it's duration rounded up and you gain an amount of spell energy equal to 1/2 the level of the spell, rounded down. After this power takes effect, the drained spell is counted as if it were a spell of half it's level (rounded up). For example, if you successfully drain a 7th level spell, they gain 3 spell energy, and the spell loses 1/2 it's duration and then counts as a 4th level spell for the purposes of things such as Dispel Magic, or further uses of this power.
You automatically and uncontrollably use this ability on any spell cast on yourself as a free action every round. This ability does not work on permanent magical effects. For the purposes of Divine magic, this ability drains an equal number of spell slots as it would normally drain in extra energy, and the Wyrd converts those spell slots into spell energy and gains them normally. The Divine caster rolls randomly to decide which spells they lose from the spells of that level that they have memorized. When a Wyrd drains Divine magic, if that magic was drained from a source granted power by Izrador, the Wyrd must make a Fortitude and a Will save (DC 10+ the 1/2 level of the Divine Caster+ the amount of energy drained). If the Fortitude save is failed, the Wyrd is Sickened for a number of rounds equal to the amount of spell energy the gained. If they fail the Will save they are Shaken for a number of rounds equal to the amount of spell energy they gained.
As a Wyrd you are treated as a Channeler for the purposes of abilities which drain magical energy, such as Black Mirrors and Astiraxes draining attacks. You may not attune yourself to nexuses, but you can steal spell energy from them with this ability on a 1 for 1 basis.

Wild Caster: (su) You have a limited number of spells you are able to draw on, but you never know which ones you will have available to you from one moment to the next.
Choose four 0th and four 1st level channeler spells. At the beginning of any encounter or scene, roll randomly to determine which spell of any given level you have available at the moment. Do this once for each level of the spells you have available to you. The results of these rolls will give you the list of spells you are able to cast using your spell energy during the encounter or scene. At any time, you will only have one spell of each level you have access to available to you.
Every time you gain access to a new spell level (every two character levels), choose four spells of that level from the Channeler list as your random spell list. These spells can be of any school other than Greater Evocation and Greater Conjuration. Any time you successfully drain energy from a spell, if it is of a level that you can cast, you may choose to replace one of your current spells with that spell (even if it is a spell that is not normally on the channeler spell list)
Your effective caster level advances as a non-channeler, meaning you gain new spell levels every even level, not every odd. Spells you cast are Charisma based. You may not use your Instability power to syphon magic off of spells you cast yourself.

Spell Splitter: (su): As a touch attack you may attempt to transfer part of a magical aura from yourself to a creature you are touching, or from a creature you or touching to yourself, or from one creature you are touching to another creature you are touching. If you are attempting to transfer a spell to or from an unwilling target you must make a touch attack prior to using this ability. If you are transferring a spell from an unwilling target to another unwilling target you must make two touch attacks, requiring that you be able to make more than one attack in a round. If the touch attack is successful, make a caster level check against the magical effect you are trying to transfer (exactly as if you were making a dispel check). If successful you transfer half (rounded down) of the duration the spell has left to the new target. This ability does not work on permanent or instantaneous spells, or on spells of a higher level than you are able to cast by your Wild Caster ability. When using this ability you must spend Spell Energy exactly as if you were casting the spell you are transferring. The spell energy is spent after the dispel check is made, if it fails no energy is spent. If you use this ability to transfer a Divine spell cast by an agent of Izrador, you are treated as if you had used your Instability power on it, and must make the applicable saving throws. This ability is subject to spell resistance.

Eyes of Chaos: (su) You have learned to see the swirling auras and colors that surround all things. You are considered to have a continuous Detect Magic cast on yourself. If this ability is ever dispelled or suppressed if automatically comes back 1d4 rounds after what ever effect that was suppressing it ends. Upon gaining this ability your eyes tend to change colors to reflect the color of whatever the most prominent magical effect in the area is. (see the Tome of Sorrows for more information on the colors of magical auras) If there are no magical effects, than your eye color tends to stabilize to their normal hue.

Metamagic Aura: (su) You may effect spells cast around you in a radius equal to 10' x 1/2 your character level. As you increase in level you gain Metamagic feats that you can add as an Immediate action to spells being cast around you (but not to spells you cast yourself). You pay the cost of the Metamagic feat's level increase out of your own spell energy. If you choose to, and have enough spell energy, you may add multiple metamagic effects to a spell, but can never add the same one more than once. You may only effect spells that are equal to (or less than) 1/2 your character level. Every time this ability is gained you may choose one of the listed metamagic feats, or any of the feats which came before it in earlier levels. This ability cannot be used on spells that do not require spell energy to cast as they are being cast, but if those spells leave a magical aura (such as a Cat's Grace cast by a Legate or a Detect Magic cast with Innate Magic) the magic aura can be effected and drained normally.

Bonus Raw Energy: (ex) Every time this ability is gained your maximum amount of Spell Energy increases by the listed amount.

Wild Drain: (su) A number of times per day as listed, you may attempt to steal additional energy from a spell being cast. This ability is activated when using your Instability power to effect spells being cast. When using this ability roll 1d10 and subtract 1d6. The result of the roll becomes the amount spell energy drained by your Instability power. If the results are negative the spell being cast is actually bolstered, meaning that you have instead provided some of the spell energy needed to cast the spell. You lose that amount of spell energy, and the spell's caster gains it.

Spell Roulette: (su) Once per day as an immediate action while a spell is being cast within range of your metamagic aura you may cause the target of the spell to be chosen randomly from the creatures within range of your metamagic aura (including yourself). This ability only works on spells which require targets, but can be used on spells with a range of Touch even if the caster is not touching the new target.

Overchannel: (su) You can temporarily hold more spell energy than normal. Any time you absorb spell energy greater than your maximum, you may pay a number of Hit Points equal to the excess to be able to hold it for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. It can then be spent as normal. If the additional energy is not spent by the time the duration is up, this ability can simply be used again, or the energy dissipates.

Spell Transfer: (su) As a touch attack you may attempt to transfer a magical aura from one target to another. This ability functions just like the Spell Splitter ability, except the entire spell is transferred instead of just half of it's duration.

Duplicate Spell: You may copy spells or spell-like abilities that have been cast near you. Any spell that is cast within your metamagic aura (including spells you cast using this ability) can be copied by you the next round. You must spend spell energy equal to the spell's level (including any adjustments for metamagic or other effects) but does not require that you have any material components or focuses. This ability does not work on spells that do not require spell energy.

Transfer Enchantment: You can remove enchantments from one object and place them on another. By spending an amount of spell energy equal to the combined levels of the spells used in the creation of a magic item you may transfer the effects of the enchantment to another vessel. This spell energy must be spent all at once. If the total level of spells used to make a magic item is greater than your total amount of spell energy, this ability does not work. Objects that are receiving enchantments must still be valid targets for that enchantment. For example, in order to transfer an enchantment from a +1 flaming sword to a suit of armor, the armor must be masterwork. In addition, because the enchantment being transfered is a weapon enchantment, it would give the armor a +1 to attacks and damage (plus the flaming effect) when the armor was being used as a weapon (such as striking with a gauntlet or armor spikes). Transferring an armor enchantment to a sword would render the enchantment useless unless the sword already had some means of increasing the wielder's armor class.

Spell Vortex: You can choose to become the target of any spell cast within the range of your Metamagic Aura. In addition, by spending an amount of spell energy equal to the level of a spell effect which targets you, you may choose anything that is within your Metamagic Aura (which could normally be the target of the spell) to be the spell's new target. These abilities can be used in conjunction.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 08:56:00 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
Khaz
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« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2010, 10:51:38 PM »

Xein got my attention aimed at this post, and I've given it a bit of a look-over for balance.  Looking at things with a critical eye is pretty much what I do when analyzing rules; DoomedHero, please don't take the fact that I'm mostly going to be pointing out what I see as broken points as an indication that I hate these Paths or that I hate you, etc.  Enough preamble: here's my take on your latest three Paths.


The Wyrd:
I like the addition of Wild Caster; it gives more proactive options than the Spellsoul had.  Two glaring balance issues need to be addressed, but they both seem fixable.  They are with these two abilities:

Instability-
First, although this ability is gained at first level, as written it doesn't seem to work until 4th, as its effect is entirely dependent on "1/4 character level, rounded down"; the Wyrd therefore cannot in fact gain spell energy until 4th level.  Perhaps that bit should read "1 + 1/4 character level, rounded down"?

Also, a portion of Instability reads:
Quote
as a touch attack you may drain Spell Energy out of magical auras. If a spell is in effect on a creature or object, you may make a touch attack to siphon off some of it's power. If the touch attack is successful, the spell effect loses duration equal to the amount of spell energy that can be drained with this power. If the duration of the spell is measured in rounds, the amount of duration lost is measured in rounds, if the duration is measured in minutes, the amount of duration lost is measured in minutes, ect. You gain an amount of spell energy is gained equal to the duration drained.
The problem here is that spell energy gained is not linked to the amount of spell energy spent to cast the spell; it's linked instead to something usually tied to caster level, and occasionally to random spell description detail.  This means that, as written, a Wyrd can drain a 0th level Light spell cast by a 20th level caster for 20 spell energy.  And if a spell has a duration of "99 rounds" rather than the usual "caster level x rounds", it could be drained for 99 spell energy.  My suggestion for a fix: have the drain ability require a caster level check against the spell's caster.  If the check succeeds, the spell loses half its original duration, and the Wyrd gains spell energy equal half the cost of the spell. (not sure on 'rounded up' or 'rounded down' here; either way keeps level 0 spells from being exploitable.  Rounded up is awful generous, but rounded down means that it doesn't work until the Wyrd is near level 2+ spells).

Wild Caster: The big problem here is that since the spell list is chosen by the player entirely, they need not ever choose more than one spell for each level 2nd and higher.  That means they can guarantee which spell will be available at all times for any given spell level, which is both cheaty and boring.  Easy fix: make the ability read "Every time your character level increases add two spells of the highest level that you can cast to your spell list."

That sentence does highlight something that should be clarified: since the Wyrd doesn't get Art of Magic, their spell level progression is one behind what full channelers will get.  Is this intended?  Either way, a mention in the Path description here would probably be helpful.



The Faithful
DH's Faithful Path got the least looking-at from me.  I got as far as "The solution was actually to have 3 separate pools of energy, one for each", realized that DH had made a Path-specific spell system which was MORE COMPLICATED than Midnight's normal magic system, and pretty much stopped reading.  My gut says that if the system is complicated enough to intimidate me away from crunching whether it's balanced, it's probably too complicated.


The Seer
DH's Seer is the Path that interests me the most, and also the most troubled, so it gets the most commentary from me.

The Seer abilities range from fairly balanced to overpowered to stupid, stupid overpowered.  Up through ninth level the biggest issue is that the path is kind of boring, and takes a fair share of "screen time" (most of the abilities cause the GM to talk at the Seer for a bit, and since it's just an info dump to the Seer's head, the rest of the party is explicitly uninvolved.)

Fateshaper- This ability is both very, very powerful and also takes up far too much 'screen time'.  In addition to being substantially better than an ability which read "roll any dice you ever roll twice, and pick the higher", it also requires far more table time, since the effects have to be PLAYED OUT twice.  Worst of all, it's kind of boring since it's always on, and therefore requires no decision on the Seer's part.  Maybe make it an upgrade to Visions of Misfortune-- something like "On the Seer's next turn after making an opponent reroll, they may choose two different actions... etc"?  It has a kind of neat "stealing possibilities from your enemies" feel if worked that way...

Visions of Doom and Visions of Death are where things start to get out of hand.  In both cases, as worded, the Seer (and the rest of the Seer's party, if the Seer is a team player) CANNOT LOSE unless the Seer has run themselves entirely out of stat points.  This may be more of a safety net than DH intended.  Especially since once the Seer hits 20 and picks up Master of Visions, this statement changes to simply "The Seer cannot lose".  Visions of Misfortune, incidentally, is so very, very eclipsed by these abilities that (since it has a stat cost on par with them) I can't imagine it seeing much play once the Seer picks up VoDoom.

On the other hand, these two abilities are so dang COOL that I can't bring myself to just dismiss them.  Heck, I'm pretty sure I can name an anime whose core concept is based on Visions of Death-- that's probably a good sign for it being an interesting idea.  Thoughts on fixing:

-VoDoom and VoDeath could be nerfed a bit by adding the line "this ability cannot be used again until twice the amount of time reset has passed".  This makes them each a 'one use' safety net, but this may still not be enough...

-Visions of Doom is so central to what makes this path cool that I'd give it sooner.  Being boring until 9th is probably a bad thing.

-VoDeath is so very, very powerful that it makes "balancing" it kind of a joke.  It's easy to see situations where it's all but a win button, and in all cases it more than nullifies the recent actions of all other players at the table, which can frustrate them.  Ways to nerf or at least add some weight to it's use:
*Make the ability take PERMANENT attribute loss?
*Make it triggered by some specific condition named by the Seer when they gain the ability, but not something under the Seer's control? 
*Make it a retcon button rather than a reset button? Not so much a Prince of Persia "Wait, that's not the way it happened!", and more of a  "It turns out that this morning, I knew this unexpected surprise was coming, and therefore prepared contingency plan X!  It is total coincidence that neither I nor anyone I told about it have mentioned this 'on camera'!"

...That last possibility reminds me strongly of the end of Bill + Ted's Bogus Journey, and I'm not sure whether that's a good or bad thing...

last ability to mention
Master of Visions- I don't like this one, in general.  In addition to being stupid overpowered, it's overpowered by way of making several other abilities more boring; they go from being powerful stunts at a significant cost (which is interesting) to powerful abilities to spam as often as the rules allow (which is boring).  Also, since "as often as the rules allow" is currently "any time the Seer wants", it currently translates to a very silly win button. ("Anyone fail that save?  RESET!  Anyone get hit by an enemy?  RESET!  Anyone not roll max damage?  RESET! ...Hey, GM!  For simplicity's sake, can we just assume that everything goes perfectly forever?")  There are probably some ways to fix it, but I'd recommend scrapping it entirely and putting something else at 20.

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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2010, 02:53:34 AM »

Khaz, as usual you point out things I hadn't really considered fully. Fixes to come soon.
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Gabboge
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« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2010, 12:14:05 PM »

Here is my thing about the 20th lvl bonuses. They really should be broken. Because in the entirely unlikely case you do make it to 20th lvl I'm pretty sure that some legate has a viewscreen that shows him all 20th lvl charecters and they send something retarded to kill you like a knight king. So haveing something fun and a little broken at lvl 20 is nice while you wait for death.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2010, 01:48:58 PM »

I fixed the Visions abilities of the Seer path. They now have additional limits on when they can be used and escalating recovery times as they ramp up in power. I also altered Fateshaper so it is not just a "roll twice" power. That was never my intention.

I think these changes will make those abilities more manageable in game. I decided against getting rid of Fateshaper because I wanted them to have a power that specifically effects their own actions, because all the others are basically triggered by other people. It is powerful, but at 19th level, it should be.

As for the Faithful, it's actually not as complex as you think. No more than running a multi-class character with spells from more than one source. The thing that keeps it simple is the extremely limited spell selection and the low number of "spell points". Read it again.
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nightflier
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« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2010, 05:15:28 PM »

Doomed, can you create some kind of document with all Pathfinder heroic paths? It would be nice for players to be able to download it all in one go.
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2010, 02:04:36 AM »

Once it's all done I can submit it to Nif for inclusion into the Downloads section. I'll try to get a move on.
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roccojr
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« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2010, 08:12:31 PM »

Thanks, DH. Very appreciated.  Laugh
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2010, 03:17:36 PM »

I'm getting back to this project again and perusing my notes. At this point I think I have revamped all the original paths that I set out to do. Anyone see any that I missed?
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2010, 01:00:07 AM »

Special Thanks to Dirigible for doing the legwork on this one for me.  Wink

This is the "Strong Guy" path. The homages  should be obvious (again, thanks for the inspiration, Dir.) The big changes in this version are the Juggernaut Traits which give it the "Overwhelming Power" feeling that I always thought they should have. This path is pretty straight forward (heh), so I won't waste time here with design nonsense. It speaks for itself.


Juggernaut rework

1. Brute Strength +1
2. Show of Strength  
3. Ignore Hardness 1
4. Brute Strength +2
5. +1 Str
6. Show of Strength (new technique)
7. Juggernaut Trait
8. Ignore Hardness 2
9. Brute Strength +3
10. +1 Str
11. Show of Strength (new technique)
12. Juggernaut Trait
13. Ignore Hardness 3
14. Brute Strength +4
15. +1 Str
16. Show of Strength (new technique)
17. Juggernaut Trait
18. Ignore Hardness 4
19. Brute Strength +5
20. Unearthly Strength

Brute Strength (Ex): The juggernaut can perform acts of terrific strength due to her great muscular endurance and power. The character adds his Brute Strength bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense as well as all Strength checks, Grapple checks, Bull Rushes, Overruns, Disarms and Climb and Jump checks.

Show of Strength (Su): The juggernaut can briefly bolster her already prodigious strength to even more astounding levels. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their character level. Each time it is gained the Juggernaut gains another of the abilities below.  

* Shake the Earth: By stamping her foot, punching the floor or belly-flopping, the juggernaut can create an area of vibration that travels only along the ground. This area can either be a 5' radius centered on the Juggernaut, a 20 foot cone,  or a 40' line. All creatures and objects in the area are sent toppling to earth and take d4 subdual damage. The DC to resist (negate) this ability is 10+1/2 the Juggernaut's level+ their Str mod.

* Clap of Thunder: The juggernaut claps her hands, and that's the last thing anyone near her hears. The sound is equivalent to a thunderstone (Fort save or deafened for one hour), but the radius is increased to 30 ft and the DC is 10+1/2 character level+ Str mod. This ability does not deafen the Juggernaut.

* Hands of Destruction: With an epic effort, the juggernaut shows that no steel or stone can stand before her. Her next attack deals double damage to objects (before Ignore Hardness is taken into account).

* Surge of Power: The juggernaut raises her Brute Strength bonus by the Juggernaut's character level at a cost: she is fatigued for one hour afterwards.

* Mighty Bellow: The Juggernaut howls at the top of their lungs, stunning nearby creatures. Anyone within 10 feet of the Juggernaut must make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 character level+ Str mod) or be stunned for one round.

* Heavy Blow: The Juggernaut slams an enemy with such force that they are sent careening away. As a free action after successfully hitting an enemy, a Juggernaut may initiate a Bull Rush as a free action. This Bull Rush uses the Damage of the blow as the modifier when attempting to beat the opponent's CMD. The Juggernaut does not have to move with the opponent during this Bull Rush, but hey are moved as if they did.

* Knock Around: The juggernaut is so powerful that casual blows from them can cause opponents to go crashing to the ground. As a free action after a successful hit the Juggernaut can use this ability to initiate a free Trip attempt. Instead of using the normal Combat Maneuver bonus, this ability uses a bonus equal to the damage dealt by the blow.

Ignore Hardness (Ex): The juggernaut's great strength and will to power allow her to ignore some of the hardness of objects she strikes. When the juggernaut strikes an object or animated object, subtract the amount of this ability from the object's hardness before applying damage to it.

Juggernaut Traits: Each time this ability is gained, the Juggernaut gains one of the following abilities:

* Unstoppable (ex): A Juggernaut may overrun a number of enemies during an Overrun equal to 1/2 their character level. In addition, any time the Juggernaut successfully sunders an object, any excess damage may be applied to the object's wielder.

* Immovable (ex): A Juggernaut adds 1/2 their character level to their CMD to resist being Bull Rushed, Overran, Grappled or Tripped.

* Inevitable (su): The Juggernaut has the ability to crash through nearly any barrier. As a free action during their movement they may cause an effect equivalent to that of a Passwall spell to any barrier they enter the square of. They may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their character level, but there must be at least 5 feet of space between each use. This means that if a wall is 10 feet thick, the Juggernaut's movement is halted after the first 5 feet. They can, however, use this ability the following round, to break through the remainder of the wall. Using this ability causes subdual damage to the Juggernaut based on the density of the barrier being moved through. 1 point for plaster, 2 points for wood, and 3 points for stone. The passage created is permanent, unlike Passwall.

Unearthly Strength: The Juggernaut's strength becomes truly unbelievable. They are assumed to always roll 20's on Str based checks. Their Encumbrance values are multiplied by 10. They completely ignore the hardness of any object. Ranges of Hurled objects increase to 100 increments (normal penalties still apply, only possible distance is increased.) The Juggernaut becomes immune to Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush and Overrun attempts (such attempts are assumed to automatically fail). Finally, they never have their movement impaired by rubble, water, heavy winds, or any other physical effect that normally slows people down.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 12:12:33 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
rozarius
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« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2010, 12:59:44 PM »

Alright DH as I have fallen afoul of DM fiat. I will be taking the Fae but a couple of things one the ability to lie in a ZOT doesn't fit the Fae. In fact that was one of the few things they couldn't do was lie. Bend the ever loving heck out of the truth, but not lie. Also in Pathfinder dr by type is overcome by any +3 weapon so why not just make it its cold iron its not like the shadow lacks for magic stuff among anyone you would be facing at that lvl. Next flavor wise they should have flaws beyond the telltales. Like maybe a rash and dmg over time if they carry cold iron or are lock up in it, that they can't lie they can omit parts of the truth but not lie, cold iron nails placed in their shadow will keep them from moving that sort of thing. which would let you buff the path a little as it does seem a little less than your new paths and most of your other reworked. Also I'm guessing the spell likes are cha based?? It doesn't seem to say although I might be blind.
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Against the Shadow  |  Forum  |  Midnight & RPGs  |  Open Discussion (Moderators: Bleak Knight, Glacialis)  |  Topic: Reworking Heroic Paths
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