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Author Topic: Reworking Heroic Paths  (Read 76527 times)
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Doomed Hero
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« on: July 24, 2009, 10:50:58 PM »

The Issue

My gaming group and I got into a recent discussion about the heroic paths and how some of them fulfil the same "niche" and how some of them just seem to be poor choices overall. I've been crunching numbers and trying to see if our gut feelings had any merit, and it seems that they do. I wanted to present my thoughts to the boards and see what other people think and see if we can rework a couple of the Paths to be more unique, interesting or more competitive with he "top-tier" heroic path staples.

I made my conclusions based on a few criteria that not everyone will agree with, but I figured I'd put them all out in the open first so that my thoughts are clear before I get into the heavy-handed critique that follows-

The Measuring System

Paths should grant unique abilities. There shouldn't be an issue of path abilities being able to be replicated or overshadowed by feats or classes. paths should also not simply be a collection of numbers. Numbers are passive. Paths should be dynamic and add interesting options to a character's bag of tricks. Spell like abilities are fine, but only when the spells are ones that will see a great deal of use, and do not fall behind the power curve. A path that grants a Once a Day 1st level spell at 6th level is just not going to be chosen that often. If it is picked it's going to be because the Path is the foundation of the character concept, in which case the player is purposefully trading effectiveness for story, which while admirable, should never be a choice in the first place. It should not ever be one or the other.


The Picks of the Litter

Here's a list of the Paths that are the most reliably beneficial and consistent in their effectiveness. I'm fairly certain most people who are familiar with the paths will recognize why they stand out, but for those of you with questions, here's the short description of why these stand apart. First, they have abilities that are extremely difficult (or impossible) to replicate. Second, they fulfill extremely important niches in a party, either covering for weaknesses, or making someone who is good at a certain role even better.

Healer
Ironborn
Dragonblooded
Quickened
Tactician
Steelblooded
Pureblood


Solid Choices

Here's a list of Paths that are very good, but not quite as consistent as the above list. Their abilities tend to be good, but are just a bit outshined by the above list. This is not to say that they are not good choices. Simply that there is something about them that makes them operate a bit below the standard set by the list above. I've included my thoughts on why they don't quite make top-tier for discussion.


Speaker: Great for a non-caster who wants a little magical punch, but really most of the impressive abilities granted by this path can be replicated or overshadowed by picking up one spellcasting school. It's main benefit is that it's magic without being channeled magic. You'll hear this critique a lot in the following entries. This path is not on the "needs improvement" list because it's spell-like abilities keep up with the power curve, and it's Sorcerer-like "mix and match" style is very cool. I'd like to see more of this.

Beast: Great for flavor. Scent is the big draw here, but as far as it's combat abilities are concerned, using the claws this path grants is going to put you pretty far behind in terms of damage output. The really good thing about this path is that it grants a humanoid a second and third natural attack form, qualifying a character for the more-than-awesome Multi-Attack tree. This path really would be on the above list except that it's really a matter of GM aproval as to weather a Beast is allowed to pick up Multi-Attack. With it your character will be a terrifying combatant that lives up to the intentions of the Path. Without it you're better off being Steelblooded or Quickened and explaining away the path abilities as "bestial reflexes" or something.

Guardian: A very solid path. The ability to ignore damage reduction, Smite Evil, healing, bard-style morale boosts and all the awesome Paladin flavor make this one a great choice. Where it falls short is with Detect Evil.In midnight that's just not an ability that is as useful as in other games. Especially since the ability, as written, is Concentration based and takes 3 rounds to really get much decent information out of. For Midnight this just isn't enough. I've got some fixes in mind that bring it up to par, but I'll get to that later.

Earthbonded: This is a very good, very interesting path. (It seems like there should be a few more "elemental" style paths, but I'll get to that later) The reason it's just not quite up to par is because usually, if you want to play a character with this flavor you're going to just play a dwarf. The magical-style abilities are going to pop up on most nature-y channeler's spell lists, and if you're going to be playing a dwarven channeler you're already taking a bit of a power cut because you need to invest an additional feat into your build (lets be honest, if you're a dwarven channeler you are going to take the Touched By Magic feat.). Most people wanting to be a dwarven channeler are going to want to be a different path just for added versatility. I really do think this is a good path, but in all the campaigns I've run in Midnight over the last 6 or 7 years, and the dozens of characters that have been made, the only time this Path has ever seen use was for an NPC goblin (who was extremely cool). I'm curious if anyone else has used this path.

Null: This path is to spellcasters what the Fellhunter is supposed to be for undead. This path is good. It's only drawback is that it means you have to be facing spellcasters to shine (also, the counterspell rules leave a lot to be desired, but that's not a problem with the Path itself). In a game where running into spellcasters usually means you're getting in over your head, it's nice to have these guys around, but it's sort of like having a radiation suit. They are good to have. They are better to avoid needing at all. Players like it when thier character's niche comes up and gives them a chance to shine. In most games, characters are going to tryto avoid magic users like the plague. Playing a Null means that the rest of your party is going to be actively avoiding situations where you get to show off. The Healer never has that problem.

Shadowed This one is the original Villainous path. It's essentially Legate Lite. Pretty darn cool actually. It would be good for playing a Tiefling-style character. Someone with a demonic taint to their blood, what with all the evil outsider flavor. My issue with this one is that it's got both legate flavor and outsider flavor. i would much rather see these divided into separate paths.



Close, but Not Quite

Here's a list of Paths that are very interesting and full of good story flavor, but generally passed on in favor of something from the lists above.

Charismatic: Inspiring oration is the neat ability for this path, and it's decently versatile. Gaining Leadership for free is also good, but Leadership is a feat that's highly game/GM dependent. This is definitely a path that's going to require GM approval, and in many cases the GM is going to say "not for this game". I'd like to see a couple alternate abilities to give people who wanted to play a Charismatic character the option of steering away from Leadership.

Feyblooded: Boring until level 6. Disguise self is pretty handy, but it's not enough to compensate for the fact that Unearthly Grace just isn't that unearthly. Also, this path, to me, seems like a tease. It's like it's hinting at your character being otherworldly but it just doesn't quite go all the way. Needs an upgrade.

Jack of all Trades: The big draws here are the Boosts. 2/3rds of the Path is about padding your numbers. Very alluring. The thing that isn't so great about this path is that it just doesn't live up to it's name. Padding your numbers is boring. The cool part of the path is the Spell Choice and Spontaneous Spell abilities, but they just aren't powerful enough to remain competitive. They add a tiny amount of versatility, but really, at 6th level, being able to cast a first level spell once a day (even if it's any first level spell you want) is just not that impressive. Also, the magical side of this path is actually going to turn away a person who wants to play a skill-based character. Most of the time that person is going to head for the Wiser, even though this is really the character concept they want to play.

Naturefriend: More "magic without really being magic" and actually pretty cool. Unfortunately, the primary caster in the group is probably going to be able to overlap with you. If they don't it's probably because they recognize that they would be stepping on your toes and choose not to, not because they couldn't do everything you can if they spent a little time with the spell research rules. I'd like to see anyone run into the same issue when playing a Tactician or a Dragonblooded. The problem with this path s that it doesn't know what it wants to be, so it tries to do too much and doesn't quite make it. Animal Friend is basically covered by any character with Wild Empathy (which this path should grant, but doesn't). Elemental Friend is covered by Spiritual Channelers (they can actually Turn or Rebuke them, not just make them ignore you and go after your buddies) Plant Friend is cool, but will almost never come up. Everything else is just spells. Good spells, but still not terribly unique.

Spellsoul: This path is full of what I like to call "dependent" abilities. It does not stand on it's own. It's extremely cool, but without a channeler around it's almost like not having a path at all. In a game where your primary casters are going to be hesitating to cast spells in the first place for fear of being Legate-bait, that means that your character's path abilities are going to be at the whim of another character deciding it's safe enough to toss magic around. What do you think the Ironborn would tell you if you told him he had to wait for you to decide when it was ok for him to be harder to hurt?

Giantborn: I admit, the first edition Giantborn was nearly game-breakingly powerful. Large size is a gateway to a whole lot of bloody possibilities. Unfortunately the rework took most of the soul out of the Path. Before tenth level, your main ability is a strength increase (boring) and the ability to throw rocks at people. (which is actually a decent and unique ability, but this path is basically meant to be taken by a frontline fighter type. They don't like to hang back and throw rocks.) This one needs an overhaul.

Warg: A very good path, except that the Wildlander and the Druid do it just as well. It gets very powerful if you combine this path with either of those classes, but that's subject to big-time GM approval. At 2nd level that combination is going to end up with a critter that can out-fight the party's fighter. A lot of GM's stick to the rule that if you get a "companion" ability from multiple sources that they don't stack. (it's rubbish, but still a common ruling) The best most people in this situation can hope for is more than one animal companion, which is an option of the Path, but really, who does that? Having more than one companion is nice until about level 4. After that they are going to die en mass to area effect spells and abilities. If you wanted a bunch of fairly weak criters you'd be a summoner or abuse the Handle Animal rules a little. If this is your path you don't want a pack of wolves, you want a grizzly. This path has another issue: Wildshape. A person who wants to play a shape-shifter might not want to play a beastmaster. A person who wants to play a beastmaster might not want to play a shapeshifter. This is an example of how including too much in a package deal actually limits it's overall appeal.

Wiser If you've seen the Factotum class out of the Dungeonscape book, you know what this Path is trying to be. The problem with it is that it's abilities are static. It improves on existing options, but really doesn't add anything to the player's bag of tricks. Lore checks are cool, but hermetic channelers can do that too. Some abilities that emphasize the Wiser's intellect in proactive ways would be nice. Also this path seems to fill the same niche as the Jack of All Trades. Admittedly, the Wiser does it better, but I still don't like the fact that they overlap.

Needs Improvement

The next group are paths that don't quite keep pace with the others, or fill similar niches to other paths, but not as well, and so get passed up.

Chanceborn: Really awesome concept. Luck of Heroes is almost a great ability, and that miss chance is pretty neat too. Unfettered? What? here's Freedom of Movement What does that have to do with luck? Lucky would be not being hit by a web, not somehow randomly becoming immune to it after you get stuck. Survivor is almost good too, except it pigeon-holes you. It means that once you get that ability, you don't really want to wear much armor anymore. How does wearing a breastplate make you less lucky? Bad arbitrary restriction! Bad!

Faithful: people drawn to this path are probably looking at a Cleric-y or Paladin-y type character. If that's the case, the Healer, the Fellhunter, and the Guardian are all more aluring choices. Sad, because as a concept this one is pretty neat. It has access to a few spells off the Cleric spell list, and outside of being a Legate, you aren't going to find that anywhere else. All of the spells are good ones, though Daylight sticks out to me as a strange choice. All the others are more subtle, not necessarily having any sort of visual display at all. Daylight is just about the opposite of subtle, and while cool, it would be better suited to a flashier Path. Hell, I think it would make more sense on the Fellhunter list than the Faithful.

Fellhunter: This is a path that does only one thing. As such it needs to go big, or go home. This should be like the nuclear option for dealing with the undead, because when you're fighting normal baddies, the other PC's are going to be essentially a whole level (or more) ahead of your character in power and effectiveness. Most players would be fine with that power cut if it meant being able to really show off when facing down the horde of shambling flesh eaters. The problem is, the path really doesn't give you much of an edge. Ward of Life is really good. Disrupting attack needs more uses. Touch of the Living should stop messing around and just grant the Bane enchantment already. It's all the path wants to do, throw them a bone. Sheesh.

Mountainborn: Like the other terrain-based Paths, the Mountainborn is a niche Path. It's unique abilities don't really seem to have much to do with the theme of the Path. Ambush and Rallying Cry are Tactician style abilities, and honestly, if you have a Tactician in your group, these abilities will probably not see much use. Ambush will be passed over for Coordinated Strike and Rallying Cry will almost never see use because a Tactician is probably going to have Improved Initiative, and everyone in the group is going to be using the Tactician's Initiative anyway. The other abilities of this path should be given to the EarthBlooded path, and this Path should be rewritten or removed.

Northblooded: This path falls prey to many of the same critiques that the Mountainborn does. It wants so badly to be the "Cold" version of the Earthblooded Path, but it doesn't. Instead we get Battle Cry (a fairly weak self-only buff that you have to yell to use) and Howling Winds (which should be a Seer ability.) I understand that the Path wants to give characters a "viking shaman" sort of feel, but really, people who want to play that kind of character are not going to use this path to do it. They are going to play some kind of Dornish Wildlander/Barbarian type, toss in some Spellcasting, maybe go Druid and use another Path to pass the weaknesses that being a fighter-caster character tends to create. (Pureblood and Steelblooded both spring to mind). This path should be redone to be part of the series of "elemental" themes paths that the Earthblooded started and that the picture of the awesome dual-torch wielding dude on page 60 hints at.

Painless: Soooo cool. Really, the picture says it all. This is the Path that every fan of Rorshach, Batman, the Punisher, the whole male cast of Sin City, The Crow, and Wolverine all want to play. He's supposed to be the guy that can suck up or tough out anything. The problem is that the Ironborn does it better, and that's a shame. Other than the Ironborn just having a really, really good stack of abilities that make them impossible to drop, the Painless has to deal with having Retributive Rage, which is not only a fairly poor ability, but also really seems out of place. These guys are supposed to be the creepy, sociopathic paragons of apathy and grim resolve. They don't get mad when you hit them. They just take it, ignore you, and keep on with thier buisness (which is probably going to be stabbing you back, but not any harder or softer because of anything you did to them a moment before.)

Seaborn: Campaign Contingent. The first choice if you're doing a nautical game. The last choice if you aren't. To be more appealing, it should be a water-control themed path, much like the Earthblooded is for stone.  Needs a total overhaul.

Seer: I want so very badly to like this Path. It's just chok full o' awesome story-driving moments. The problem is that it wants to be a prophetic, future-seeing plot-stick, but that requires more work on the GM's part than it does on the players. As written, without GM help, the Path is drastically underpowered, and overshadowed by anyone with access to the Divination school.

Sunderborn: This one is deceptive. It lures you in by making you think it might make you angelic or demonic (or something similar) and then you find out that it's really just a path for people who want to summon things. The ideas from this path should really be split into a few other paths and fleshed out more. The Summoner, the Angelic and the Demonic paths would all be extremely interesting.



One Path to Rule Them All

You might have noticed that I left one out...

Shadow Walker: Hot Staggering #&%*!!!!! This one deserves it's own catagory. I'm not one who is terribly concerned about play balance. I only ever worry about comparing power levels of various abilities if there is a fairly obvious standard that works for making comparisons. Tougness is not the feat that Cleave is. The Monk is not the class that the Cleric is. yes I know. No I generally don't care. The problem is that this path is head and shoulders above the others in terms of effectiveness. It's a rogue's wet dream. For any other class, it's a huge increase in versatility. To top it off, it's the only way I've found to break the "no planar travel" rule. yes, I know that it's not actually planar travel, but it does essentially allow you to teleport short distances. Show me another ability that grants that. It's a really, really good path. So good, in fact, that I don't allow it in my games anymore.


In Conclusion

So now that the heavy-handed, somewhat snarky review is out of the way, we can get on with the discussion. Keep in mind, these are just my opinions, and I am in no way telling you how you should play your game or your characters. I'm simply looking at the options and the numbers. As far as I'm concerned, the only way anyone could say you're doing it wrong is if you aren't having fun.

I'm working on a few revisions that I'd like people's opinions on and I'll put them out as I finish them. As always, criticisms, questions and ideas are always welcome.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 03:16:32 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2009, 10:26:39 PM »

I have to say I tottaly agree. I ran into much the same problems while thinking up charecture consepts for a pitfight. Sunderborn in particular was a letdown for me. I mean a random summon? Common.
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 03:58:08 AM »

Just to comment with my own experience...

I had quite some different players, i.e., heroic path...

You tell about the painless heroic path...
well build it is an awfull stopping machine...
Let's explain it in an example:
Erunsil, warrior 4, barbarian 3, Dire blade 8...
you add all the rage/retrbutive strike/last stance/holding action/increase treshold....

the others on the group could go to take a tea and play cards wating their team mate to finish the orc horde....

other heroic path...
the northblooded...
warrior - mhor... then you've got a perfect band leader.......with all the mystic that goes with a hero...

etc.....
but I absolutely agree that some h.p. are really useless or too weak to be used...

for me an h.p. is either strong in game terms or in roleplay terms, and i make a point to make it known at every game session i do.
It allow players to choose seemingly less powerfull but more roleplay oriented heroic path qithout the feeling that they will be less usefull or important for the group...
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 11:59:03 AM »

for me an h.p. is either strong in game terms or in roleplay terms, and i make a point to make it known at every game session i do.
It allow players to choose seemingly less powerfull but more roleplay oriented heroic path qithout the feeling that they will be less usefull or important for the group...
See, that's part of the problem D.H. was talking about here. Why in the hell should someone be punished for wanting to take something that works well for roleplay purposes? If all heroic paths were created equal (or even just kinda close), this wouldn't be an issue. You'd look at the flavor, what you thought would work best for your character for whatever reason, and pick that one. There wouldn't be the age-old complaint of "I really like the idea of the *insert crappy path* here, but they just don't stand up..." that you always hear.
Our game, at least, has been compensating for the substandard paths by not-so-subtly boosting them. The Seer, for instance, gets constantly handed visions that very often have a huge impact on gameplay, while the Jack-of-all-Trades (yours truly) gets handed plenty of "yeah, you can do that" on skills I have no business pulling off. The other 8 of us naturally gravitated towards the good paths. Not all the top-tiers, but the good ones.
Overhauling all the heroic paths to be perfectly workable is...well, a daunting task. Some of them just need to be deleted in favor of ones that clearly outshine them (bu-bye, Painless, the Ironborn is your big brother), while others just...well, suck. The Chanceborn, for instance, could desperately use an infusion of the Pirate of Eredane's luck dice (Steel and Shadow, it's awesome). Maybe if we started giving them a once-over one by one...?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 12:01:36 PM by Sholano » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 03:19:19 PM »

Just to comment with my own experience...

I had quite some different players, i.e., heroic path...

You tell about the painless heroic path...
well build it is an awfull stopping machine...
Let's explain it in an example:
Erunsil, warrior 4, barbarian 3, Dire blade 8...
you add all the rage/retrbutive strike/last stance/holding action/increase treshold....

the others on the group could go to take a tea and play cards wating their team mate to finish the orc horde....


true, but at that point you're talking about a 15th level character, so almost any well built character at that level can kill a billion average orcs, all day long. And you honeslty tell me that the ironborn couldn't do the same thing, for longer, without taking as much damage. by lvl 15 an iron born has 3 dr, 3 natural armor, improved healing...plus, most of the murder from that build you just suggested comes from being a dire blade, and has little to do with the painless other than last stand.
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 04:53:27 PM »

Balance is a fairly elusive creature and varies by the eye of the beholder.  I agree that the differences in raw power needs to be closer but trying for real balance will probably inflate certain paths and pull them away from their core concept. Instead of powering up weaker paths you might want to look the other way and power down some of the more popular paths. Unfortunately, my rules fu is rather weak and the paths I created were based on effects/role rather then balance.  If they came out balanced that was likely more blind luck then design.

Kane
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Doomed Hero
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 06:00:05 PM »

Unfortunately, my rules fu is rather weak and the paths I created were based on effects/role rather then balance.  If they came out balanced that was likely more blind luck then design.

Actually Kane, your Reborn path is extremely good. I've only used it in a game once, but it held it's own well. At the time we were just starting to use the 3.5 rules and the "all skills are class skills" thing was almost too good (I've sense realized that the entire cross-class skill system was garbage, and your path was one of the first steps I took in that discovery.) The "immune to mind effecting spells" was also very, very good and completely unique. Once my work on the Core paths is done, I'd llike to drag the ones from this site out into the discussion for comparisons and possible retooling (with the author's help permission, of course).

The Reborn and the Twinsoul were the paths that got lumped together with the Wiser, Jack of all Trades and other skill-related paths for comparisons and making sure that they were different enough not to overlap. I'm actually more of a fan of yours and Dirigible's paths simply because of their more supernatural flavor, which (in my mind) Paths are supposed to be.


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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 06:19:48 PM »

Thanks Doomed, but trust me when I say that my rules fu is not very good.  I had some help back then putting the paths on the site and having people snipe at them.  I was just happy I could get the concept across in more or less one piece.  The one path from the old site that I really liked was the Hawkeyed path which focused on archery.  It turned out to be far more powerful then I or the original author thought.  Granting darkvision twice the distance of orcs or goblins made it Really easy to get the drop on the Shadow.

Kane
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 07:58:12 PM »

Ok, first revamp up. Here's the design notes-

The Giantblooded is the bruiser path. Getting hit by these guys should suck. Hell, just being near them should suck. Running away from them? That should suck too. If the Ironborn is the "endurance path" this one is the "power path". Getting the uniqueness that I've been talking about was pretty easy with this one, because short of being an Ogre, nothing else is going to be able to touch what these guys can do.

They are very powerful in terms of raw combat ability, but when I ran a few tests against some other classic combat builds (ironborn dorn barbarian and steelblooded erenlander two-weapon fighter) I found them to be pretty equal. The thing that set the Giantborn apart was actually it's ability to throw rocks. Softening up an enemy with a boulder or two before they can close is damn useful.

Surprisingly, I found that the Ironborn and the Steelblooded still had the edge against this guy. The Ironborn was dealing slightly less damage (because of the giantblooded's larger weapon), but he could take more, so it evened out. The Ironborn won two of the three matches by having diehard and continuing to fight in the negative. The steelblooded was actually doing more damage. The Steelblooded's focus on high attack bonuses means that it could afford to take larger Power Attacks with Drive It Deep. Couple that with the Giantblooded's slightly lower AC, and it wasn't even close.

Where this path really shines is when you use it with the Defender class, and when you are fighting creatures smaller than you are that don't have the speed to avoid the hits. It's weakness is that it is literally a bigger target. Increased facing is good, but actually allows you to be attacked by more things at once, and they will, because you're scary.

So take a look and toss in your thoughts.


Giantblooded, a re-envisioning of the Giantborn

1 Powerful Build
2 Hurl
3 Growth Spurt
4 Intimidating Size
5 +1 Strength
6 Long limbs
7 Clout
8 In the Way
9 Large
10 Bowl Over
11 Great Heave
12 Powerful Build
13  Greater Clout
14 +1 Strength
15 Growth Spurt
16 Line Drive
17 Punt
18 Long limbs
19 Greater Heave
20 Huge


Powerful Build: The physical stature of the Giantblooded lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. In any situation in which it is advantageous to do so, the Giantblooded is treated as one size category larger than their actual size. This includes being able to use larger size weapons, lifting heavier loads, special combat bonuses (such as gaining a grapple bonus for size or being harder to trip). This does not include any ability gained from actually being physically larger, such as natural reach or how many squares the character takes up. This ability is lost when the character actually gains an increased size from this path, and remains lost until it is gained again in later levels.

Hurl: The Giantblooded may throw objects of two size categories smaller than them a distance equal to 10 feet per Character level. This object may not exceed a weight equal to 1/4 of their light load. Hard objects, such as rocks, deal 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds of weight if thrown at a creature or object. In the case of objects, damage is only dealt if the Hardness of the Hurled object is greater than the Hardness of the struck object. if a creature is hurled, they take damage as if they had fallen the distance they were thrown.

Growth Spurt: Each time this ability is gained the Giantblooded's natural facing doubles. This means that at 4th level, instead of taking up one five foot square, the character now takes up 2 adjacent spaces, meaning that they take up roughly the same amount of space as a horse. At 13th level, instead of taking up a 10' by 10' space, they now take up a 10' by 20' space, making them now roughly the size  of a two-horse carriage.

Intimidating Size: The Giantblooded gains a bonus on Intimidate Checks equal to 1/2 their character level.

Long Limbs: The Giantblooded has grown so much that the lenght of thier arms and legs far surpass any normal member of thier race. They gain a bonus to their base speed equal to thier natural Facing (5 feet for medium creatures, 10 feet for large, ect.)
In addition, they gain an increased natural reach. Their reach increases to that of a creature one size category larger than them. They are not reflexively used to their increased reach yet, which means that the character is only counted as having increased natural reach during their own turn. This means that they do not threaten additional spaces when it is not their action. This ability is lost when the Giantblooded actually increases in size category from this Path. It is gained again a few levels later as the Giantblooded continues to grow in size.


Clout: When a Giantblooded strikes a creature 2 or more size catagories smaller than itself with a Bludgeoning attack they may initiate a Bull Rush as a free action. This Bull Rush may only move a creature a maximum of 5 feet, but may push that creature in any direction that does not move them closer to the Giantblooded.

In the Way The Giantblooded is hard to move past. Enemies trying to tumble through an area threatened by the Giantborn receive a penalty to the check equal to the Giantborn's strength modifier.

Large: The Giantblooded is now a Large creature. They lose the benefits of Long Limbs and Growth Spurt until they are gained again at later levels. In addition they gain the Giant subtype, making them unable to be effected by many spels and abilities that target normal size humanoids.

Greater Clout: The Bull Rush initiated by a Giant Blooded's Bludgeoning attacks are no longer limited to a 5 foot maximum. The Giant Blooded is treated as moving with a character for the purposes of resolving distance.

Bowl Over: Any creature hit by an object hurled by the Giantblooded must resist a special Trip Attempt. The Giantblooded's trip result is considered to be equal to the damage dealt by the Hurled object.

Great Heave: Anything the Giantblooded can lift over his head they can throw a distance equal to their Strength modifier x5 feet. If the Giantblooded chooses to throw such massive objects at creatures, they are subject to a Reflex save equal to the Giantblooded's attack roll. A successful save negates all damage.

Line Drive: When the Giantblooded knocks opponent's over with hurled objects, those objects can continue on to hit additional opponents behind them. If a creature is Tripped by a Giantblooded's Hurl ability, the object continues along a straight line path, up to it's maximum distance. If another creature is in the way, the Giantblooded is considered to have thrown the object at that creature as well using the same attack roll. The additional creatures gain a +2 AC bonus and a +2 bonus to resist being tripped for each creature that was hit by the attack before them. As soon as the thrown object hits a creature that is not tripped, the object stops.

Punt: Any creature two or more size categories smaller than the Giantblooded that is struck by a Giantblooded's natural attack must make a save against the damage dealt or be thrown a number of feet equal to the damage dealt. In addition, they must save as if they had taken Massive Damage.

Greater Heave: The throwing distance of the Great Heave ability is doubled.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 10:01:21 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 08:30:02 PM »

The one path from the old site that I really liked was the Hawkeyed path which focused on archery.  It turned out to be far more powerful then I or the original author thought.  Granting darkvision twice the distance of orcs or goblins made it Really easy to get the drop on the Shadow.

I was looking at that path yesterday. I liked it's concept as sort of the other side of the Steelblooded's coin. same "weapons master" concept, except for range instead of melee. I'd like to revisit the concept with a more generalized approach. My thought when I read it was that it pigeon-holed a character a bit too much. Having a path based on vision and noticing everything (sort of a more "awareness" based seer-type) would be really cool, and would go hand in hand with an archer build, but it would be just as cool for a savage barbarian with animalistic heightened senses.

I didn't even think about the darkvision problem when I read it, but yeah I think that much would be a bit much in a ranged combat Path. However, as one of the higher level abilities of a path who's gimmick was enhanced senses it would probably be perfect.
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 02:17:30 PM »

I didn't even think about the darkvision problem when I read it, but yeah I think that much would be a bit much in a ranged combat Path. However, as one of the higher level abilities of a path who's gimmick was enhanced senses it would probably be perfect.

Kane,

It was just pointed out to me by one of my roommates that we've both made a mistake. The hawkeyed doesn't actually have Darkvision. They gain Low Light vision, which is increased to 3x (instead of double) if the character already had Low Light vision. It's the same ability that the Faeblooded get at first level.

Where it gets a little out of hand is when Far Sight comes into it. having 3x low light and doubling all your regular vision distances gets pretty bad. An easy fix would be to add that Far Sight only applies under clear conditions.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 02:23:26 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2009, 02:46:42 PM »

Doomed,

   I was going off of memory for Dark Vision, but I agree that Far Sight needs some limit.  Daylight only wouldn't be bad.  I like the idea of a long range (beyond normal range) archer/sniper that could put fear into the Shadow; arrows coming from seemingly nowhere and picking off scouts and officers.

Kane

P.S. As you can probably tell, I still like the path and would play it again. 
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 03:43:14 PM »

P.S. As you can probably tell, I still like the path and would play it again. 

Oh yeah, I agree. Admittedly, I think that the supernatural edge that paths are supposed to give comes more from the "super sight" thing than the archery thing. It seems like the effect you describe could be done with a Faeblooded Archery spec'd Fighter. That's my main issue. i don't think that the things a path can do should be able to be replicated that easily.

I think a redesign concentrating more on sight (or other sense) abilities and less on the archery stuff would make it more appealing as it would be able to be used with a broader array of character concepts.
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2009, 03:54:52 PM »

Next one's up.

Design notes- I did a little research for this one. i was going for a classic celtic-style fae creature feel. I kept a lot of the original abilities, just altering them a bit to be more encompassing. Unearthly Grace works almost exactly the opposite of the way it used to. The abilities picked first end up being the strongest in the end, rather than the ones picked last, meaning you can choose the abilities that are important to you right off the bad, and then move down the list as you work up in level. The spell-like abilities have been lumped into one ability which essentially gives the Faeblooded a limited spell list that can be used in a pick-and-choose style, much like the Speaker. The new addition is the Telltale, which puts the Faeblooded in the same catagory as the Beast and the Giantblooded as a character who can definitely stick out in a crowd. In the classic stories there was always a way to tell if someone was fae. I liked that. It gives them a bit of a weekness, and also builds a bit of story into the path.

The level 17 and level 20 abilities are quite powerful, and I'd like some feedback. My thoughts are that levels 17-20 are really the "epic levels" of the game and aught to be treated as such, but I understand not everyone agrees. I find it easier to go big, showing everyone my intentions and then scale back than to start small and work up.


Faeblooded Rework

1 Changeling Child
2 Trickery x1 per day
3 Low Light Vision
4 Unearthly Grace
5 +1 Dexterity or Charisma
6 Master of Tricks, 0th level
7 Aura Vision
8 Trickery x2 per day
9 Unearthly Grace
10 Greater Telltale
11 See Illusion
12 Master of Tricks, 1st level
13 Unearthly Grace
14 Trickery x3 per day
15 +1 Dexterity or Charisma
16 True Sight
17 Fey Apotheosis
18 Master of Tricks, 2nd level
19 Unearthly grace
20 True Fae

Changeling Child: You are not actually a member of your race. It's taken you many years to discover, and whatever you are is very good at passing for what others believe you to be, but it is not perfect. You possess a telltale. A marking or difference somewhere on your body that is startlingly different from other members of your kind. This may be something obvious, such as an unnatural eye or hair color, or it may be more subtle, such as an inclination for plants to subtly tug towards you as you pass or for water to get your clothes wet, but never your skin. Whatever the case, there is something decidedly unnatural about you. Living with your secret has made hiding it as natural as breathing. As such, you are always considered to be taking ten on bluff or disguise checks to hide your telltale. Your life of subterfuge has also made you keenly adept at spotting it in others In addition to your normal racial bonuses, you gain a +2 Racial bonus on Bluff, Disguise  and Sense Motive checks. These skills are always considered class skills for you.

Trickery: A number of times per day as indicated on the chart above the Faeblooded can cast a spell from the following list. In order to cast the spell, the faeblooded must be of a character level equal to or greater than three times the spell's level. List- 0th: Dancing Lights, Daze, Ghost Sound 1st: Charm Person, Disguise Self, Faery Fire, Sleep 2nd: Daze Monster, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Misdirection. When this ability is gained the Faeblooded chooses one of their mental attributes. that attribute becomes the spellcasting attribute for spells and abilities from this path.

Low Light Vision: You see the world in strange new ways. You gain Low Light vision at second level. If the character already possesses this ability, the character's vision in low light increases from double to triple the normal distance.

Unearthly Grace: You begin manifesting your unearthly nature in protective ways on your person. Each time this ability is gained, choose either AC, Will saves, Reflex saves, Charisma checks (including skills), Dexterity checks (including skills), or Initiative. Upon choosing, that ability gains a +1 Inherent bonus. In addition, each other ability chosen when this ability was previously gained gains an additional +1 bonus. No ability from the above list may be chosen more than once.

Master of Tricks: You have become become so used to manipulating the world around you that you become able to cast spells from your trickery spell list, of the listed level, at will.

Aura Vision: You begin seeing flickers of the true nature of things. Creatures gaining bonuses to disguise or bluff checks from supernatural or spell-like abilities  (such as the Lie spell, Alter Self or a Doppleganger's  Impersonation ability) do not gain those bonuses against you, and you are always considered to be taking 10 on Spot or Sense Motive checks to determine if something is not what it claims or appears to be. This ability can allow the Faeblooded to notice shapeshifters, creatures possessed by Spirits, undead attempting to pass as living, and nearly any other deception. This ability does not allow the Faeblooded to know the exact nature of a creature who is attempting to deceive them, only that something is unnaturally wrong.

Greater Telltale: You are changing and finding it more difficult to disguise your otherworldly heritage. Either you gain an additional, different telltale, or your existing telltale increases in severity. If you choose to gain an additional telltale, it cannot be one that can be hidden or disguised in the same manor of the original. This gives creatures near you a second spot check to notice your strange nature. If you choose to strengthen your existing Telltale, it must be to a degree that, if spotted, would be nearly impossible to explain. In addition, it becomes more difficult to hide. Unnatural hair color might brighten and stop taking dye. Strange eyes may begin glowing faintly. Skin that does not get wet might increase to include clothing and possessions. Plants might not only pull towards you, but also begin blooming or visibly growing in your presence. This gives anyone making the usual spot check to notice your otherworldliness a +10 bonus on the roll.
Upon gaining this ability you become unaffected by spells or abilities designed to determine your true nature. You may lie freely in a Zone of Truth. To alignment detecting spells, or other divinations you appear as whatever it would be most beneficial to you to appear as.

See Illusion: You begin being able to see past illusion magics. You become immune to their effects, but still see them as faint, see-through images. This allows you to see both the illusion and what it is hiding or disguising.

True Sight: Your vision becomes truly supernatural. Each day for one round per point of Charisma bonus you posses, you may act as though you were under the effects of a True Seeing spell. These rounds do not have to be sequential.

Fay Apotheosis: You have completed your transformation into something truly otherworldly. Your type changes to Fay (making you immune to most effects that target humanoids.) You are no longer effected by any any Compulsion effect or ability that would change your form (unless you allow it). You cease visibly aging, become immune to diseases and poisons and will not die of old age or natural causes. Upon gaining this ability all your telltales increase in severity. Creatures gain an additional +10 bonus to any roll made to notice them. At this point your telltale is nearly impossible to hide by any normal means.

True Fae: You have become a creature of raw, ancient power and magic, far beyond the understanding of mortals. Your telltale is noticed by all who see you and increases to an overwhelming capacity. The effect is awe inspiring. You are always considered to be taking 20 in intimidate or diplomacy checks to make others respond more favorably to you. In addition, you gain DR all/cold iron or magic. You become immune to any ability that attempts to track, find, change, control, imprison or uncover any information about you. Creatures rapidly forget details about you when you are not immediately present, but remember when you return. Records and memories of your deeds fade or change. even your passing inspires myth and legend.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 04:41:11 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2009, 12:40:53 AM »

This is my redesign of the Charismatic path. It is extremely different than the original. I removed all the leadership-style abilities from it in favor of social power. The inspiration was drawn from stories of Nymphs and Sirens and characters such as Helen, Adonis, Casanova and Narcissus. Forumites with a background in english literature might notice my nod to another great literary charmer  Wink For those of you interested in a Leader-type path, I've got id done, but I'm holding off on it until I finish working through the others. It's basically a brand new concept, and those I want to do as a group later.

Design notes- Most paths are built for combat in one way or another. I wanted to draw away from that a bit. This path is for lovers, not fighters. One of the path's most powerful abilities (Ladykiller) is actually canceled by hostile action. As I was writing it I noticed a lot of opportunity for humor, which Midnight tends to lack. Hope you all enjoy it.

Charismatic rework

1 Stunning
2 Distracting x1, -2 maximum
3 Muse x1 per day
4 +1 Charisma
5 Charming
6 Heartbreaker
7 Distracting x2, -4 maximum
8 +1 Charisma
9 Muse x2 per day
10 Eternally Charming
11 Ladykiller (Maneater)
12 +1 Charisma
13 Distracting x3, -6 maximum
14 School of Charm
15 Muse x3 per day
16 +1 Charisma
17 The Eye of the Beholder
18 Distracting x4, -8 maximum
19 Charm Anything
20 Perfection Made Flesh


Stunning: (ex) You are incredibly beautiful. People tend to forget what they are doing or what they are saying around you, and you've figured out how to encourage it. As a standard action you may cause a humanoid creature that you can communicate with to make a Will save against a DC equal to 10+1/2 your character level+your charisma modifier. Failing this save means the creature is effectively Dazed for one round. This can cause performers to stumble in their acts, riders to fall of their horses, people to walk into walls or other people, or other such embarrassing situations. It can be used at will, but using it against the same target more than once per day gives them a cumulative +2 bonus against the effect. If a target is the subject of hostile action while they are Stunned they may make a Sense Motive check against the abilitiy's normal DC. If the hostile creatures are obvious allies of the Charismatic, the subject gains a +10 bonus to their Sense Motive check. If they succeed they become immune to the effects of this ability forever.

Distracting: You can make it hard for others to concentrate. As a Swift action you may designate a number of creatures up to the number listed. Those creatures must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your charisma modifier). If they fail, as long as you are within sight, those creatures receive a penalty to Armor Class and Reflex saves equal to your Charisma modifier, up to a maximum penalty as listed. Creatures effected may attempt the save every round. If they succeed they are immune to your charms for the remainder of the encounter. This ability is usable at will, but requites a swift action every round to maintain. This ability is contingent both on being seen by the target, and that the target be naturally attracted to you (an dwarf would likely be immune to this ability if the one using it on them is a halfling)

Muse: A number of times per day as indicated, you may grant a competence bonus to one skill check equal to 1/2 your character level. This requires no actual action on your part, only that you be present during the amount of time that it takes to complete the action the check is made for. For Craft checks this may take hours, for a Perform check, only minutes, for a Tumble or Jump check it may only take seconds.

Charming: (su) You make a great first impression. Any person that speaks with you for more than a minute must make a Will save or fall under the effects of a Charm Person spell. This only effects creatures normally able to be targeted by that spell. This is not necessarily a conscious action on your part, and may occur whether you want it to or not. Spellcraft does not identify this effect as it happens, nor does Detect magic detect it being cast, though once it is cast it's Aura can be seen.  A sense motive check made against a DC equal to 10+1/2 the charismatic's character level+ their charisma modifier, or their Bluff check (whichever is higher) can be used to determine the nature of the effect. This ability may only effect one person at a time. If you turn your attention to another person long enough for this ability to activate, the previous spell effect ends (regardless of whether the new target makes the save or not).

Heartbreaker: You are always considered to be taking 10 on Diplomacy checks against any creature with a capacity for attraction towards you

Eternally Charming: By paying careful attention to a creature effected by your Charming ability, you may treat it's duration as permanent. To use this ability you must maintain contact with the creature in some way (even letters or Sending can be used) at least once a month. This ability can only be used against one creature at a time, but once the duration of the initial Charm effect has passed (activating this ability), that creature no longer counts as being charmed by your Charming ability allowing you to use that ability normally while still maintaining the effects of Eternally Charming.

Ladykiller (or Maneater): (ex) Creatures who are affected by your charm and beauty have a hard time convincing themselves to hurt you. Any creature with the capacity to be attracted to you who tries to cause you harm must make a Will save against a DC 10+1/2 your character level+your charisma modifier or be unable to do so. Aside from the DC, this ability functions in all ways as a Sanctuary spell. Once they have successfully struck you in combat they are immune to the effects of this ability for the remainder of the encounter.

School of Charm: You may instruct others on social grace. By taking at least an hour you may instruct an individual on how to behave in a social encounter to obtain a stated desired effect. For 24 hours they may substitute your ranks in Charisma based skills for their own during any encounter in which they are pursuing the previously agreed on desired effect.

The Eye of the Beholder: (su) Your beauty has become supernaturally powerful. Creatures begin seeing you more and more as their physical ideal, even if that physical ideal is different than your actual appearance. The differences will never drastically change your appearance, but things like height, weight, shade of skin or hair, eye color, or even basic racial characteristics may shift slightly in the minds of others. Dwarves may see you as shorter and thicker. Orcs may see you as taller and more muscular. This ability allows you to avoid any and all penalties to Charisma related roles for being of a different species or culture than another creature. This ability can cause some confusion if different creatures ever compare notes about your appearance.

Charm Anything: Your Charming ability may be used on any creature you can communicate with.

Perfection Made Flesh: (su) Your beauty has become the stuff of legends. Creatures who see you must make Will saves every round (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your charisma modifier) to do anything except stare at you in awe. This is a Mind Effecting ability.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 06:26:50 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2009, 08:30:10 AM »

Hey, cool stuff DH.  I like the new flavor of Charismatic, though the starting powers may be a touch powerful.  Maybe Stunning 1/day?  At will against all targets could be overkill...(maybe 1/day/level, so it gets more powerful as the character levels).

Is True Sight for Faeblooded X rounds per day, or just X rounds?

I'd put a few more +1 STR in Giantblooded, and get rid of some of the overlapping powers.  I like the Long-limbs flavor, but I wonder how much use it will have if a level or two later it's negated by Growth Spurt...

Keep up the good work,
Joe

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« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2009, 12:26:09 PM »

Hey, cool stuff DH.  I like the new flavor of Charismatic, though the starting powers may be a touch powerful.  Maybe Stunning 1/day?  At will against all targets could be overkill...(maybe 1/day/level, so it gets more powerful as the character levels).

Is True Sight for Faeblooded X rounds per day, or just X rounds?

I'd put a few more +1 STR in Giantblooded, and get rid of some of the overlapping powers.  I like the Long-limbs flavor, but I wonder how much use it will have if a level or two later it's negated by Growth Spurt...

Fixed True sight, thanks for the catch.

Limiting the number of times per day Stunning can be used seems a bit arbitrary. The way I see it is this: It's essentially an ability that allows you to give up your action for a chance of causing the other guy to lose theirs. There's a reason it's a 0th level spell. It's actually not that great of an ability. The only thing that makes it good is if you've got buddies that can take advantage of the lapse and beat on the target while they are distracted. If that's the case, I doubt it'll ever work on that target again. As such I added a caveat for that to the ability. What do you think?

As for Long Limbs, that's a balance power. The main things that make Size powerful are reach, and the ability to make AaO's against things that are closing in on you. I wanted to give the Giantblooded their size related powers in increments. Long limbs is essentially like having Reach without being able to use it to Threaten additional areas. It gets negated when the Giantblooded "sizes up" because thats when they gain the full benefits of having increased reach. The next time they get it, they are on their way to Huge size. 15' feet of reach (or more if you're toting around a big spear) is pretty powerful, but at 18th level it's actually probably on the low end of the terrible things players will be doing.

I didn't actually want to make the Giantblooded into the "strength guy" because I plan on Revisiting the Juggernaut. The giantblooded already gets the increased carry or a large creature and the benefits of size added to most special combat maneuvers. I'd actually like it if the Juggernaut was able to out-wrestle the Giantblooded, which will be really hard if the Giantblooded gets more strength bonuses as well as the benefits of size.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 12:32:55 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 07:50:48 PM »

On this one I took out the magic stuff. I never thought it fit. It seemed like the Wiser was sort of stepping on this one's toes (or vice/versa) and filling the same niche, so for the purposes of this project I basically combined them.

Design notes- A lot of the abilities are the same as in the original. They work just fine as they are. They basically make for a character that is just a little bit better at everything. The new stuff is what I've always felt the path was lacking- the Jack's trademark versatility and flexibility with an emphasis on being clever.

The level ten ability was inspired by the Man at Arms (from Iron Heroes) Wild Card feat. I think it fit's the Jack's flavor perfectly. The level 20 ability is actually a weakened version of the Deity power to always be considered to have rolled a 20 on any roll. I thought it was fitting that at level 20 the Jack would be godlike when it came to skills.

Jack of all Trades Rework

1 Natural Grasp
2 Bonus feat
3 Skill Boost
4 Ability Boost
5 Save Boost
6 Make It Work
7 Bonus Feat
8 Ability Boost
9 Save Boost
10 Epiphany
11 Skill Boost
12 Ability Boost
13 Work Smarter
14 Bonus Feat
15 Save boost
16 Work Faster
17 Skill Boost
18 Ability Boost
19 Mind Over Matter
20 Master of all Trades

Natural Grasp: Everything comes natural to you. All skills are class skills to you.

Skill Boost: You gain a +4 competence bonus to a skill of your choice each time this ability is gained. you may not choose the same skill more than once.

Ability Boost: You gain a +1 inherent bonus to an attribute of your choice each time this ability is gained. You may not choose the same ability more than once.

Save Boost: You gain a +1 competence bonus to one saving throw of your choice each time this ability is gained. You may not choose the same saving throw more than once.

Make It Work: You can work very well under the worst of conditions. You may take a -5 penalty on a dexterity, intelligence or wisdom based skill check to use that skill under conditions that normally render it impossible. This includes things such as Crafting without appropriate tools Tumbling on rough terrain or opening a lock without picks. For things that are obviously physically impossible, such as making a spot check while blinded, this ability does not function.

Bonus Feat: You gain a bonus feat. You must qualify for this feat as normal.

Epiphany: You have a knack for figuring things out when you need to. You gain a feat that can be switched once per day as a free action. You must qualify for this feat normally. This feat does not qualify as a prerequisite feat for the purposes of gaining other feats, abilities or prestige classes. The Magecraft and Spellcasting feats cannot be gained with this ability, nor can any feat which grants a supernatural or physical ability (such as Touched By Magic or Thick Skull).

Work Smarter: By taking twice the normal amount of time on a skill check you may add your Intelligence modifier to that skill check in addition to the regular modifiers. In the case of Intelligence based skills, this means that your intelligence modifier is added twice.

Work Faster: You've gotten so good at doing things under less than ideal conditions that when you have everything you need you can significantly reduce the amount of time it takes to do things. When you make a skill check, for every 5 points you beat the DC by, reduce the amount of time that check takes by the chart below-

DC+5 = 3/4 the usual time
DC+10 = 1/2 the usual time
DC+15 = 1/4 the usual time
DC+20 = 1/6 the usual time
DC+25 = 1/8th the usual time
DC+30 or more = 1/10 the usual time.

For the purposes of skills that take one round, a result of 3/4 indicates a Partial action. 1/2 indicates a Move-Equiviliant action and 1/8 or more indicates a Free action. You cannot apply this ability to skill checks that you have already applied the Work Smarter ability to.

Mind Over Matter: You have figured out how things work at thier most basic levels. You may use your Intelligence or Wisdom in place of any other attribute for any d20 roll.

Master of All Trades: When you make a skill check you are assumed to have rolled a 20.


« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 12:36:05 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 07:54:21 PM »

I realized i left out the Wiser and the Shadowed. I've added them to the original list after analysis and some discussion.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 08:18:26 PM by Doomed Hero » Logged
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who spoke about cooking?


« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 02:50:01 AM »

Now that i've seen how you handle the things, i understand better what you wanted to fix... In effect, like this, the heroic paths you've reworked look really more attractive in game terms...thank for all this doomed...

I definitively will do an heroic path based on cooking... Wink Wink Wink
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2009, 09:54:30 AM »

Dang, these are good!
I am going replace the old paths with these new ones. Keep up the great work!
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« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2009, 12:41:37 PM »

Now that i've seen how you handle the things, i understand better what you wanted to fix... In effect, like this, the heroic paths you've reworked look really more attractive in game terms...thank for all this doomed...

Dang, these are good!
I am going replace the old paths with these new ones. Keep up the great work!

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

 If you do end up using them I'd love to hear your playtest results. These have been through some discussion and the concensus is that they are appropriately scaled against the paths at the top of the list, but what seems right in concept or on paper can't possibly be able to predict the horrible ways that clever players will use them. Wink
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who spoke about cooking?


« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2009, 01:46:05 AM »

for now the players i have took:
- tactician
- healer
- elven fighting initiate
- shadow walker
- guardian
- painless

so unfortunately i won't be abble to playtest them...FOR NOW....
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Gabboge
Insurgent Commander
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Spell Energy / Taint +3/-0
Posts: 492



« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2009, 10:24:28 AM »

 I would really like to see what you come up with for painless.
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Sholano
Bane of Legates
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Spell Energy / Taint +3/-0
Gender: Male
Posts: 589



« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2009, 01:00:22 PM »

Okay, before I start reading the topic close to my heart (Jack of All Trades for the win), here're my thoughts on the others.

Giantblooded. Good stuff here, can't really think of anything I'd change off the top of my head.

Faeblooded. Holy hell, True Fae is powerful. Admittedly, by that level so is everything else, but DR/all? Whoof. Probably a fair tradeoff, though, considering how big of a target you are for the Shadow. Other than that - you're killing me, man, pick a way to spell Fae. Fae, Fay, Fey, Faeigh, whatever, just pick one.

Charismatic. I like this one, much better flavor-ness than before. First quibble, though, on Stunning; did you mean it to cause Dazed or Stunned? You mention both, and they're different effects.
Quote from: d20 SRD
Dazed
The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

...

Stunned
A stunned creature drops everything held, canít take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

I'd go with Dazed, personally.
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Against the Shadow  |  Forum  |  Midnight & RPGs  |  Open Discussion (Moderators: Bleak Knight, Glacialis)  |  Topic: Reworking Heroic Paths
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